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Why there are a lack of tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why there are a lack of tanks

JPryde's Avatar


JPryde
06.17.2013 , 06:11 AM | #11
The only issue I have with tanking, is that I really do not enjoy to be kicked around all the time in HM-FPs. Sometimes I just do not bother to walk up to the mob again, as keeping aggro on range and just wait for the DDs to kill it is more effective.

Apart from that I have learned that tanking is not a miracle happening. It doesn't require superspeed reflexes or extensive micro-management.
I even got my debut at tanking with terror from below (only the endboss) and I got to admit, that as a tank, I got a lot less to take care of than as DD or healer.

I guess the real reason for not having 25% tanks in game is that there are just so many players, who believe, that an omgwtfbbq uber crit is all that is viable.
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mongotee's Avatar


mongotee
06.17.2013 , 10:08 AM | #12
SWTOR lacks tanks because few are capable of tanking.
Tanking requires 1) fast pace 2) constant responsibility and 3) awareness.
Most people cannot handle this because they are fools.

DPS is just pew-pew weak to strong.
DPS requires no skill whatsoever, which is why a vast majority of players are DPS.
Any monkey with a mouse can DPS.

Bad tanking will always be plainly visible. Tanks must take responsibility for tanking.
Bad DPS can simply hide behind good DPS and take credit for good DPS.
Bad DPS likes to hide because bad DPS are cowards and they are retarded.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.17.2013 , 10:23 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by mongotee View Post
DPS is just pew-pew weak to strong.
And, yet, somehow, very few DPS manage to do this *very* simple thing.

I honestly think that misbehaving DPS are one of the big reasons why there are fewer tanks than there would be otherwise. DPS using the wrong kill order or splitting DPS on elite+ targets is *absurdly frustrating*. It probably doesn't help that tanks also have to put their trust in healers: if a healer is bad, a tank is going to faceplant, regardless of their gear. Tanking is a more complex role than healing or DPSing that is *forced* to place a lot of trust in the other players of the group not being idiots. When they *are* idiots, a tank's life is made incredibly frustrating (especially since most DPS will blame you for losing threat when the real reason is their inability to use proper focus DPS and target priority).
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Maelael's Avatar


Maelael
06.17.2013 , 10:45 AM | #14
So....I play a pvp tank.

You wont find tanks pre 55 usually because: 1. It's pointless as story and world missions are more efficient exp. 2. Too much of a risk of idiots/people who can't heal. 3. The gear is available elsewhere cheaper (time and money) and easier. I did two FPs before this weekend on my tank. There was zero reason to FP.

I did a 55HM FP for the first time the other day (Instant Queue!) and I had full 66 gear, absorb augs, etc. I explained I don't know my way around because I don't do FPs. Healer was down with this and explaining along the way.

1 DD stayed the whole time. Of the other slot, he quit before he saw us. Then we had another, undergeared, also quit before they saw us. 3rd one stayed. Geared fine. Easily killed 10-15 minutes on queuing for DDs and the first DD DCing.

Easy peasy HM FP, even as my first time. Went swimmingly. Bosses were easy (No deaths, nothing difficult), and I only lost aggro if I was dead.

I died 4 times on trash mobs because ??? (Could have been healer oops. No deaths on the other same trash mobs, and I did the same stuff).
Zero tank gear dropped.
It took like 45? Minutes, and we even sped along at a constant pace (Maybe taking 5 minutes total to explain strats)
I spent nearly all of my time on bosses with my back to a wall or dealing with minor pushbacks. Not really fun watching a small portion of polgons and my UI while doing my rotation and waiting to cancel it's ability.

So essentially to tanks that can tank FPs (like me), Pugging for 55HMs is boring visually, as a challenge, gear is few and far inbetween (Although I experienced this on my healer too), and the random queue is fairly annoying (Would have sucked with that way undergeared guy according to my groupmates).

The visual and etc issues are the fault of the mechanics chosen by the devs. It's just not interesting to tank, you don't see much at all of the boss fights because you're stuck in a wall. Im sure these fights look great, but I wouldn't know because on my healer Im looking at health bars and CDs, and on my tank Im stuck in a wall.

It wasn't hard either, but we may have been well or overgeared (our fault...sorta).

No gear dropped. As a matter of fact, out of the 6 drops, only 1 was usuable by people in our group. (Design flaw? Bad luck?)

The queues probably need an inherent gear check.

But, the main point: I don't queue as an aptly skilled and geared (but inexperienced in specific FPs) because they're boring and theres no loot. IE, zero motivation to do so.

MFollin's Avatar


MFollin
06.17.2013 , 10:45 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
And, yet, somehow, very few DPS manage to do this *very* simple thing.

I honestly think that misbehaving DPS are one of the big reasons why there are fewer tanks than there would be otherwise. DPS using the wrong kill order or splitting DPS on elite+ targets is *absurdly frustrating*. It probably doesn't help that tanks also have to put their trust in healers: if a healer is bad, a tank is going to faceplant, regardless of their gear. Tanking is a more complex role than healing or DPSing that is *forced* to place a lot of trust in the other players of the group not being idiots. When they *are* idiots, a tank's life is made incredibly frustrating (especially since most DPS will blame you for losing threat when the real reason is their inability to use proper focus DPS and target priority).
This is spot on. This is what makes running a 55HMFP horrible as a tank - and healer for that matter.
It is way too often I see the DPS go on different targets, even when there's only 2 targets.

I've also seen to many DPS taking the "leader role" and keep moving on to the next group before the current one is killed, which is completely stupid on so many levels.

mongotee's Avatar


mongotee
06.17.2013 , 10:54 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by MFollin View Post
It is way too often I see the DPS go on different targets, even when there's only 2 targets.
This idiotic behavior spawns from "Call of Duty" genre of games where you kill anything and everything everywhere by any means necessary as quickly as possible.

Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
06.17.2013 , 11:01 AM | #17
I have tanked all content and my answer as to why there are a lack of tanks can be found below:


1. Tanking drops in HM FPS are very rare. I ran 10 fps in one day as soon as 2.0 hit and I had nothing.

2. There is not incentive for me to join the group finder as a tank. With the abundance of DPS, why isnt there a system that rewards tanks? A drop that guarantees a tanking piece at the end of the FP?

3. I go in a flashpoint in BIS underworld and I pull the room, fight for aggro hold all on me, play the piano with my shadow and what does the healer do? He does damage, its good, I can heal myself, i got medpacks and cooldowns.

4. People do not respect the tactics and what needs to be attacked first. I do not go into the group finder to fight for aggro and compete with the DPS who attack other targets than what I tank.


5. I spend millions of credits / hours in my tank to have worse gear tanks perform better. So why should I continue to use my tank?

mongotee's Avatar


mongotee
06.17.2013 , 11:20 AM | #18
Good points Leafy Bug.

The consensus on why the game lacks tanks is threefold:

1) Most people are too dumb to tank properly.

2) Most people are too dumb to support a tank properly.

3) Bioware is too dumb to to give tanks incentives to grind.

MFollin's Avatar


MFollin
06.17.2013 , 11:31 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Leafy_Bug View Post
3. I go in a flashpoint in BIS underworld and I pull the room, fight for aggro hold all on me, play the piano with my shadow and what does the healer do? He does damage, its good, I can heal myself, i got medpacks and cooldowns.
That one can be just as good as it can be bad IMO. When I heal and I see a group of normal mobs approaching, I'll often use my AoE (e.g. Mortar Volley) to take out that group as the tank will have fewer mobs to grab and take less damage. Of course, the healer should swap back to healing when the tank starts taking damage, but the first few seconds are fairly safe in most FPs.

RiChess's Avatar


RiChess
06.17.2013 , 11:46 AM | #20
That and add in the fact that tank is the only role that requires a massively different gear set to function between roles. I know that's why I haven't fully committed to tanking on my pt/sin/jugg, tanking is fun and all but I "have" to mix it up or I lose interest in the class.

I don't know that there is any way around that other than to do something like give a 75% discount on DPS gear if you have a full tanking set. Not that it would be fair to the dps/healer classes though....
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