Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Why there are a lack of tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why there are a lack of tanks

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
06.25.2013 , 06:19 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
-sigh- Starting to hate healers now lol. No, I don't have to, but it's the quicket and -easiest- way to get it back when a healer does something stupid. Which, in FPs, might as well.

I will repeat it, there is no real benefit to a healer HoTing a tank on pull. If you ran with a tank often you would see this, instead of pugging all the time, which I assume you do from your posts. I run with the same healer all the time pretty much. She is a MMO vet, and knows that HoT before a LoS pull is bad practice in mmos.

To healers reading this thread, ignore that guy. Unless you want to be a bad healer who is acting like a dps. "I only think of myself."


Also, I have played a healer...briefly, pre 2.0 though lol and was a sorc. Healing was so easy, you have no idea. Bubble and go afk. Sorcs are bad healers now it seems (or the majority who play them are bad)...so I really can't comment on it. But if you HoT on a LoS, you are bad.
I am a main tank, but when I heal on my alt, I heal the same way no matter if its a PuG tank or a guild tank, the only difference is if its a PuG I usually have less time to DPS.

You have no clue how healing or tanking for that matter works, you have completely ignored every fact presented to you "because you have been playing MMOs for 13 years". Doing something wrong for 13 years doesn't make it right, it just makes you bad. And it makes you even worse for not learning.

Also, please, stop making a fool of yourself. You say I am the one that only thinks of myself when you are the one that will refuse to taunt off a healer if they make a mistake or do something that doesn't mesh with your personal code.

You are a tank, you are not god. Shut up and tank the instance. If someone is doing something you think is inhibiting the success of the run, ask them to stop, no need to be a douche about it. But I will tell you this, I would not stop preHoTing you if I were the healer, that would completely destroy my resource management.
10/10 NiM, 4/4 NiM, NMP, 7/12 NiM, HM GF, 4/5 NiM, 7/10 HM
I am happy that there will be a renewed focus on story, I love story, its why I picked this MMO. But I picked an MMO, not an episodic single player RPG that I have to pay a subscription to receive the episodes.

Mc_Gregor's Avatar


Mc_Gregor
06.26.2013 , 01:41 AM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
I, and any other tank can. But just because we can, does not mean we should have to waste our snaps on a healer's mistake. There is -zero- benefit to wasted heals. ZERO! You throw a hot on, which produces agro, but is 100% over healing. So you produce agro, don't actually heal (you make green numbers...but don't recover any health). So you just wasted power, made threat for no reason, and put your HoT on cd. Not very smart if you ask me.
Overhealing does not generate threat. Putting healing probes before the pull is a standard tactics of any good operative and with current costs it greatly improves survivability.

quirez's Avatar


quirez
06.26.2013 , 02:35 AM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
You're missing something. A *lot* of something, actually. You're making an almost hilarious comparison that, just because a DPS spec is a DPS spec, that, regardless of your gear, you'll do more damage. The tank specs convert those tank stats into offensive capability by converting Def/Shield/Abs into recharged CDs and additional resources. DPS specs do nothing for them. In fact, DPS specs are designed to make your existing DPS stats more effective. Gear is only effective when you're in a spec that actually capitalizes on those stats.

I agree that i cut the effectiveness of my gear in half by goin dps in tank eq, but still i have my doubts about "daily'ing" - lets take a closer look at skills on my particular example:

-tank spec - the offensive goodies i can get are - procced faster flamethrower and procced falcon punch, ehm uhm rocket punch - both are nice, if i manage to get a flamethrower+flamethrower combo i clear one group of mobs easily, procced rocket punch helps alot in KO'ing single targets but i do have to rely on shielding to proc and i do need to be real quick if i get flamethrower proc at the end of one group - since it simply falls of very fast. another thing is i have jet pack which helps ALOT in movement.

-advanced prototype as my dailiy'ing spec - immolate if crits has a chance to 1-hit-KO normal mobs, prototype flamethrower - now that thingy clears trash beautifully - i do need to use 3x immo/flame burst/flame sweep, but i can also charge it by using flame sweep while running. sticky granade+pft = group dead. autocrit RS is nice but not as much help as lets say jet pack, but if u add retractable blade (ok dmg, low heat, nice dot) and 7rockets in shoulder cannon (for those silvers/golds) to the equasion than i think AP takes the lead no matter the lack of proper dps gearing

i do not count DFA as its there for both specs


I do find it funny that you say that enemies don't have the chance to attack you, but you end up taking more time than a DPS operative with a healer companion. If you're *really* killing them as fast as you think you are, you'd be blowing throw the dailies ridiculously fast and having nothing to complain about. Even in a fight that lasts ~10 seconds, you'll get attacked more than enough to actually have your tank stats make a substantial offensive difference.

ok i have to admit and say sorry - i overemphasized the difference thats for sure, i only had the chance to do dailies on my OP yday (busy on weekly classic ops/toborro/weekly 55 HMs) but i did notice that besides stealth there isnt THAT much difference, it IS still there its just not big

By the way, when I ran those time trials, I wasn't just running on my Shadow tank. I ran on my Guardian and my VG as well. *Those* characters *also* beat out the DPS. It's not just Shadows that do dailies well as tanks. Guardians and VGs are *equally* good, assuming you don't run around in the completely wrong spec for your gear.

there might be more truth to that than i wanted to admit before, but still i wont admit anything until i get the time to properly test it for myself
Quote: Originally Posted by Hockaday View Post
You should really clarify that then.

sorry about that

All tanks have spam-able aoes*.

flame sweep isnt worth the heat as a main aoe dmging skill, so is juggs kick (dunno the name) from what i recall :P
@the pre-hotting dilema - as both a tank and a healer i want to give and receive pre-hots, if a tank cant bear the immense weight of the hot threat (even on LoS pull) than i would be quite worried about the FP/OPS the group is in.
Operative Siduri
Sniper Yai'co

SWORN ENEMY

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
06.26.2013 , 02:48 AM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by Mc_Gregor View Post
Overhealing does not generate threat. [...]
ah, thanks for clarification, wasn't sure about that.

good thing to remember

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
flame sweep isnt worth the heat as a main aoe dmging skill, so is juggs kick (dunno the name) from what i recall :P

@the pre-hotting dilema - as both a tank and a healer i want to give and receive pre-hots, if a tank cant bear the immense weight of the hot threat (even on LoS pull) than i would be quite worried about the FP/OPS the group is in.
flame sweep and sweeping slash are in fact worth it. 1-2 and you have focuns on your self again.
specially when dps ignores weak/standard/strong and goes for elites first... since they are so pro dps monsters that other mobs can wait as they are not worth of their pro elite rotation which is reserved for elite mobs
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

quirez's Avatar


quirez
06.26.2013 , 03:03 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
ah, thanks for clarification, wasn't sure about that.

good thing to remember



flame sweep and sweeping slash are in fact worth it. 1-2 and you have focuns on your self again.
specially when dps ignores weak/standard/strong and goes for elites first... since they are so pro dps monsters that other mobs can wait as they are not worth of their pro elite rotation which is reserved for elite mobs
sorry but you are quite out of topic ;P our discussion there was about doing solo content - dailies especially

few pages eariler i said flame sweep is great for keeping aoe threat.
Operative Siduri
Sniper Yai'co

SWORN ENEMY

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
06.26.2013 , 03:06 AM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
sorry but you are quite out of topic ;P our discussion there was about doing solo content - dailies especially

few pages eariler i said flame sweep is great for keeping aoe threat.
sorry, I guess I got focused to much on being called an idiot healer.
and the topic is tanks in flash points :P
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
06.26.2013 , 03:23 AM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
His formatting makes me read it as a poem.

A really bad poem.
I used to write texts like this, too.

And, by the way, your formatting lets your reply look a lie a bad two-lined poem, too.

Shadowseve's Avatar


Shadowseve
06.26.2013 , 04:32 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by Mc_Gregor View Post
Overhealing does not generate threat. Putting healing probes before the pull is a standard tactics of any good operative and with current costs it greatly improves survivability.
This ^ I have always thrown up my healing probes on the tank pre-pull. No one has ever complained.

DarthSpekulatius's Avatar


DarthSpekulatius
06.26.2013 , 05:02 AM | #129
question for all those who are against pre-HOTing:
what do you do if someone Pulls before you?
standing around like ?
you make it sound as if it was hard to get NPC to attack you, well it's not.

Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
06.26.2013 , 06:18 AM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
question for all those who are against pre-HOTing:
what do you do if someone Pulls before you?
standing around like ?
you make it sound as if it was hard to get NPC to attack you, well it's not.
Yep. They pull, they tank. It has nothing to do with what we, as tanks, are capable of. The principle is simple: people have defined roles for a reason and those roles need to be respected. If you, as a DPS/healer, feel that I am moving too slow then you are welcome to roll a tank (or respec) and queue for the job. If you, as a DPS/healer, wish to pull you may do so, and you will also be tanking that pack. I leave it to the healer to decide if the puller lives or dies.

If you want to do part of my job, you can do all of it.
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds