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Encrypted Datacube: Story content in the cartel market?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Encrypted Datacube: Story content in the cartel market?
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jamesvasquez's Avatar


jamesvasquez
06.28.2013 , 01:10 AM | #471
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
Well some people want to point out that:

My question is the same, why is the "most marginal part of the story" more important than the parts of the story that set up the reasons for our quests and adventures in the first place? What makes the CM so much different than a bookstore or comic shop? Because it's IN the game? A retailer is a retailer. Access to most is just a click of a browser away. It's a pretty weak argument.


I'll bet it's the later. The little bit of fun they had in doing them is FAR overshadowed by this over-reactionary response. We are effectively the mean old neighbor lady who keeps any toy that happens to land in her yard. Eventually, the kids just stop playing so they don't lose any more of their toys.




They are stories of the characters we interact with. Darth Malgus, Satele Shan, T7-O1, Darth Angral, Revan, the Sith Emperor, Lord Scourge, Darth Marr, Jace Malcom, Darth Baras, Bounty hunter Braden, Jedi Master Orgus Din, Darth Thanaton, Jedi Master Syo Bakarn, Jedi Master Bela Kiwiiks, Jedi Master Jaric Kaedan, and many of our support characters. These datacubes offer no interaction, they are just some guy who is narrating background information. The books and comics also narrate background information about the people and events that we have to react to in our storylines. So how does it not makes sense? You should probably read up on those on Wookieepedia. That is why I provided the links for you to look at and see how they affect our story.



Then I have to ask what are your qualifications that lead you to this conclusion?
I don't know why you keep pushing that comic book/novel thing. It is not in-game. In-game content is supposed to come with the subscription. Datacubes are in-game content. More than that, they're story content. The Cartel Market is supposed to provide cosmetics. The fact that they've changed the definition of the Cartel Market is of great concern, as it disrupts 25% of the game. The story is why a lot of people came to it in the first place. It's why I came to it. We aren't the mean old lady. We are the consumer showing concern over a product that is not working as we were told it would. But you want to talk about comics? Ok. You subscribe to a comic. 15 bucks a year. You get each issue. Each issue is full of new content that they don't charge extra for. New artwork, new villains, continuing story. We are paying $15/month and what you're saying is that the only thing we can expect is to read the same issue over and over again. That is not how subscriptions are supposed to be. THAT is the whole point of this fight.
Fanboy for life!!!!!!

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
06.28.2013 , 01:11 AM | #472
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
Well some people want to point out that:

My question is the same, why is the "most marginal part of the story" more important than the parts of the story that set up the reasons for our quests and adventures in the first place? What makes the CM so much different than a bookstore or comic shop? Because it's IN the game? A retailer is a retailer. Access to most is just a click of a browser away. It's a pretty weak argument.


I'll bet it's the later. The little bit of fun they had in doing them is FAR overshadowed by this over-reactionary response. We are effectively the mean old neighbor lady who keeps any toy that happens to land in her yard. Eventually, the kids just stop playing so they don't lose any more of their toys.



They are stories of the characters we interact with. Darth Malgus, Satele Shan, T7-O1, Darth Angral, Revan, the Sith Emperor, Lord Scourge, Darth Marr, Jace Malcom, Darth Baras, Bounty hunter Braden, Jedi Master Orgus Din, Darth Thanaton, Jedi Master Syo Bakarn, Jedi Master Bela Kiwiiks, Jedi Master Jaric Kaedan, and many of our support characters. These datacubes offer no interaction, they are just some guy who is narrating background information. The books and comics also narrate background information about the people and events that we have to react to in our storylines. So how does it not makes sense? You should probably read up on those on Wookieepedia. That is why I provided the links for you to look at and see how they affect our story.



Then I have to ask what are your qualifications that lead you to this conclusion?
Because to some, the only important part of the story is what the game offers, and having it locked into a RNG Pack just isn't acceptable when you put in factors like

"Subs will still get content free" Packs aren't free. You're paying CC for them, and anything you pay CC for isn't free, whether it's monthly stipend or not. And to even use the monthly stipend argument doesn't work, because you could save up for a year on free CC and still not obtain the story content, as it's in random packs and not a straight purchase with CC.

The little bit of fun they had could be used to have a little bit more fun with companion quests that would equal the same thing. You standing there listening to your companion speak. Seriously, what would you rather have, story content they gave in the datacubes that are obtained in RNG Packs, or more companion storylines?

And what makes you think they had fun doing those? They could of hated it or just did what the bosses told them to do.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

powpows's Avatar


powpows
06.28.2013 , 01:20 AM | #473
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
Then I have to ask what are your qualifications that lead you to this conclusion?

Are you trying to say they have to be release in cartel packs? So your saying that they couldn't just add them as a drop to some ops/fp boss rewards, or even as something you can buy for say 50 basic coms?

My qualification would be common sense.

Did you not read the response from Eric stating that they did this in order to test the waters to see if they could get away with putting it into the market. That if it had been okay they then would of taken it a step farther and if that was still ok, keep pushing it to the point of subs having to buy every single piece of content thru the market?

Most people are not upset about this because its a tiny cs from a small cube, they are upset with it because if permitted it sets a precedent for more and more content to have to be bought above ones sub fee. Content that we were promised we would always have access to with no extra cost when f2p went live.

Laurreth's Avatar


Laurreth
06.28.2013 , 01:21 AM | #474
I'm a bit sad to see it go, and frankly, I don't see the issue with having small snippets of paid content floating around the game.

Some of you people have a fetish for serious overreacting; as soon as you don't get everything shoved up your earholes for free, you start pulling the "omg pay2win" whiner card.
I like how the whining about "censored" butts started instantly but it took 2 days for someone to notice the legs are also ****ed up rantboi

jamesvasquez's Avatar


jamesvasquez
06.28.2013 , 01:23 AM | #475
Quote: Originally Posted by Laurreth View Post
I'm a bit sad to see it go, and frankly, I don't see the issue with having small snippets of paid content floating around the game.

Some of you people have a fetish for serious overreacting; as soon as you don't get everything shoved up your earholes for free, you start pulling the "omg pay2win" whiner card.
No one said "pay to win" and since we are already paying, nothing we get in the game is free.
Fanboy for life!!!!!!

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
06.28.2013 , 01:31 AM | #476
Quote: Originally Posted by Laurreth View Post
I'm a bit sad to see it go, and frankly, I don't see the issue with having small snippets of paid content floating around the game.

Some of you people have a fetish for serious overreacting; as soon as you don't get everything shoved up your earholes for free, you start pulling the "omg pay2win" whiner card.
Yup. Those paying 15 dollars a month are surely getting things for free. That whole PAYING MONEY TO THEM MONTHLY really equals free.

I'll be fair though, maybe English isn't you're first language and you don't know what free means. Well, I'll help you, free means you don't pay any money at all. I know. Silly English speaking people making up silly new words that don't go along with your...what is your first language? Sorry, I just can't imagine it being English as you obviously don't know what the word free means, so if English is your first language...well then...I'm stumped.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Sohaim's Avatar


Sohaim
06.28.2013 , 02:08 AM | #477
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
Well some people want to point out that:

My question is the same, why is the "most marginal part of the story" more important than the parts of the story that set up the reasons for our quests and adventures in the first place? What makes the CM so much different than a bookstore or comic shop? Because it's IN the game? A retailer is a retailer. Access to most is just a click of a browser away. It's a pretty weak argument.


I'll bet it's the later. The little bit of fun they had in doing them is FAR overshadowed by this over-reactionary response. We are effectively the mean old neighbor lady who keeps any toy that happens to land in her yard. Eventually, the kids just stop playing so they don't lose any more of their toys.



They are stories of the characters we interact with. Darth Malgus, Satele Shan, T7-O1, Darth Angral, Revan, the Sith Emperor, Lord Scourge, Darth Marr, Jace Malcom, Darth Baras, Bounty hunter Braden, Jedi Master Orgus Din, Darth Thanaton, Jedi Master Syo Bakarn, Jedi Master Bela Kiwiiks, Jedi Master Jaric Kaedan, and many of our support characters. These datacubes offer no interaction, they are just some guy who is narrating background information. The books and comics also narrate background information about the people and events that we have to react to in our storylines. So how does it not makes sense? You should probably read up on those on Wookieepedia. That is why I provided the links for you to look at and see how they affect our story.



Then I have to ask what are your qualifications that lead you to this conclusion?
i dont know to say anymore, why do you keep insisting that we have to pay for extra lore that is inside the game? the Shroud is a new enemy, there is a personal datalog INSIDE the game, not outside(comics),its IN THE GAME, why SHOULD we have to pay to watch it? do you have to pay to talk to your companions? i get if there is a comic book, but this was made by the Developers team of this game, which we pay to play, so WHY would we have to pay to watch stories? following your logic its just go in the game and press buttons and NO lore, following your logic its screw all side quest stories, if its in the game we should not have to buy them in freaking cartel packs, whats your point?

Sohaim's Avatar


Sohaim
06.28.2013 , 02:15 AM | #478
Quote: Originally Posted by powpows View Post
There is no reason they have to be released in cartel packs again, assuming they don't want them to be. We sure don't.

I am starting to feel like a battered wife, coming back after he promises he wont hit me any more. You know, until next time that is.
Honestly, eric is very nice guy, i feel that the other Devs would never share their intentions like that, and i do know that they have orders and all, its pretty obvious that the people calling the shots dont care about us and what we think,having just admited that and still going with it?. you know what i am starting to hear i lot from my budds withing the game? is that they think that beyond what was leaked more then a year ago(content from patch leaks from 1.2 to 1.5 on torhead) there is nothing else being developed and that is the reason for the slow pace of actual content, and right now i am starting to believe.

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
06.28.2013 , 03:28 AM | #479
WARNING: Wall of text ahead.
Quote: Originally Posted by jamesvasquez View Post
I don't know why you keep pushing that comic book/novel thing. It is not in-game. In-game content is supposed to come with the subscription. Datacubes are in-game content. More than that, they're story content. The Cartel Market is supposed to provide cosmetics. The fact that they've changed the definition of the Cartel Market is of great concern, as it disrupts 25% of the game. The story is why a lot of people came to it in the first place. It's why I came to it. We aren't the mean old lady. We are the consumer showing concern over a product that is not working as we were told it would. But you want to talk about comics? Ok. You subscribe to a comic. 15 bucks a year. You get each issue. Each issue is full of new content that they don't charge extra for. New artwork, new villains, continuing story. We are paying $15/month and what you're saying is that the only thing we can expect is to read the same issue over and over again. That is not how subscriptions are supposed to be. THAT is the whole point of this fight.
Because you and others keep using the idea of "pertinent game lore" as a justification that it should be a part of the subscription. The datacubes provide a level of game lore far inferior to the lore provided by the books and comics. I also keep pointing out that can be had for free (using the GTN or YouTube)? Don't use the excuse that someone else had to buy it. It's a crap response. Who are you to tell others what they can and cannot purchase?

The next aspect of "in game." All the items in the CM are content. Rise of the Hutt Cartel is in game content. They don't come with the subscription. You are really going to have to explain how it is 25% of the game experience to me though. Give me numbers and definitions.

You guys are the mean old neighbor lady. You guys are squashing the fun of the devs and those who happen to like getting the Cartel Packs (like Laurreth below) and getting an easteregg of a little bit of backstory. Now, we can't play out in the yard because you took our toys away.

How did the game break once the datacubes were introduced? What "New artwork, new villains, continuing story" is introduced with the cubes? Here is an example: I subscribe to the "Captain America." I'm happily reading my comic. My comic comes to a storyline that references something that happened in "Avengers #243" Now that is content I don't know about and if I want to find out about it, I NOW have to get issue of "Avengers #243. It's not part of my subscription, and neither are the cubes.

You are saying that ANY game lore belongs to our subscriptions. I am pointing out how ludicrous the argument is by including the books and comics. They have a level of game lore that FAR outstrips the content provided by the cubes. And yet because it happens as in the game cut-scene it somehow makes it more important. I don't get it. I just doesn't make any sense.

My point is that your point is pretty ridiculous given the specifics of the argument.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Because to some, the only important part of the story is what the game offers, and having it locked into a RNG Pack just isn't acceptable when you put in factors like

"Subs will still get content free" Packs aren't free. You're paying CC for them, and anything you pay CC for isn't free, whether it's monthly stipend or not. And to even use the monthly stipend argument doesn't work, because you could save up for a year on free CC and still not obtain the story content, as it's in random packs and not a straight purchase with CC.
True, you could just buy all of them off the GTN.
Quote:
The little bit of fun they had could be used to have a little bit more fun with companion quests that would equal the same thing. You standing there listening to your companion speak. Seriously, what would you rather have, story content they gave in the datacubes that are obtained in RNG Packs, or more companion storylines?
There is interaction with your companion. There is no interaction with a hologram recording.
Quote:
And what makes you think they had fun doing those? They could of hated it or just did what the bosses told them to do.
Someone had fun with it, or they wouldn't have done it.

Quote: Originally Posted by powpows View Post
My qualification would be common sense.
Glad it isn't all that common. My common sense told me that this whole project required programming and coding that encompasses a whole lot of work. Then to rework something that is working fine may break the finished product (yes, this whole thing is already finished and just waiting for deployment). To go back and rework that will cause a delay. That may not be a problem for you, but those who DO like these regular pack drops, would be pretty pissed that some whiners caused a delay in their products arrival.
That is why I need someone with qualifications as a computer programmer to refute this.

Quote: Originally Posted by jamesvasquez View Post
No one said "pay to win" and since we are already paying, nothing we get in the game is free.
Did you just contradict your own argument? The datacubes aren't free either.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sohaim View Post
.... why do you keep insisting that we have to pay for extra lore that is inside the game? ...
You don't. There is always the GTN. I know. I'm selling the cubes that I received on it right now.
It's amazing how loud a dollar can be.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristin Wilson

jamesvasquez's Avatar


jamesvasquez
06.28.2013 , 03:43 AM | #480
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
WARNING: Wall of text ahead.


Because you and others keep using the idea of "pertinent game lore" as a justification that it should be a part of the subscription. The datacubes provide a level of game lore far inferior to the lore provided by the books and comics. I also keep pointing out that can be had for free (using the GTN or YouTube)? Don't use the excuse that someone else had to buy it. It's a crap response. Who are you to tell others what they can and cannot purchase?

The next aspect of "in game." All the items in the CM are content. Rise of the Hutt Cartel is in game content. They don't come with the subscription. You are really going to have to explain how it is 25% of the game experience to me though. Give me numbers and definitions.

You guys are the mean old neighbor lady. You guys are squashing the fun of the devs and those who happen to like getting the Cartel Packs (like Laurreth below) and getting an easteregg of a little bit of backstory. Now, we can't play out in the yard because you took our toys away.

How did the game break once the datacubes were introduced? What "New artwork, new villains, continuing story" is introduced with the cubes? Here is an example: I subscribe to the "Captain America." I'm happily reading my comic. My comic comes to a storyline that references something that happened in "Avengers #243" Now that is content I don't know about and if I want to find out about it, I NOW have to get issue of "Avengers #243. It's not part of my subscription, and neither are the cubes.

You are saying that ANY game lore belongs to our subscriptions. I am pointing out how ludicrous the argument is by including the books and comics. They have a level of game lore that FAR outstrips the content provided by the cubes. And yet because it happens as in the game cut-scene it somehow makes it more important. I don't get it. I just doesn't make any sense.

My point is that your point is pretty ridiculous given the specifics of the argument.


True, you could just buy all of them off the GTN.

There is interaction with your companion. There is no interaction with a hologram recording.

Someone had fun with it, or they wouldn't have done it.



Glad it isn't all that common. My common sense told me that this whole project required programming and coding that encompasses a whole lot of work. Then to rework something that is working fine may break the finished product (yes, this whole thing is already finished and just waiting for deployment). To go back and rework that will cause a delay. That may not be a problem for you, but those who DO like these regular pack drops, would be pretty pissed that some whiners caused a delay in their products arrival.
That is why I need someone with qualifications as a computer programmer to refute this.



Did you just contradict your own argument? The datacubes aren't free either.



You don't. There is always the GTN. I know. I'm selling the cubes that I received on it right now.
Being able to purchase it off the GTN or watch it on youtube doesn't justify it being in the Cartel Market. I am saying that any IN GAME lore should come with subscription. That is not including expansions, which I expect to and am willing to pay for. It's 25% in that when it started, the company stated the game was going to be built on four pillars. One of those pillars was story. 1/4 = 25%. The comics and novels STILL have no pertinence on any of this. Do they offer lore that RELATES to the game? Absolutely. Are they IN GAME? No. Therefore, they have nothing at all to do with the debate going on here.
Fanboy for life!!!!!!