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Burst DPS classes are better in S&V.

NogueiraA's Avatar


NogueiraA
06.10.2013 , 03:49 AM | #1
The only fight that sustain dps is better is the Cartel Warlords..
All the other fights it's a 30 secs or less burst dps -> mechanic -> 30sec burst dps.

Me and my guild are already farming S&V HM and we could do some tests.
I play an Annihilation marauder and the other melee plays a Vengeance Jugg both full 72 BiS, we switched to our assassins, full 69, 66 hilt playing Deception and we did 5% less damage, why? Because sins can **** burst.
Specs like Annihilation/Watchman there's no spot in this raid because you ALWAYS lose your dps stacks, Lethality sniper needs to put 2 dots on the target to start the damage, when you have to kill adds it's not a good spec for it, like in Titan 6 you don't have Orbital Strike all the time to kill those adds.
TFB Anomalies/irregularities it's burst damage only, Operator it's burst, Kephess burst, Dread Guards and Writhing thing sustain is more viable.

I know tank spank it's "not" cool, but sometimes a tank spank is very nice for the dps's.
This is my thought about what I've ever see.

DerekDrake's Avatar


DerekDrake
06.10.2013 , 05:52 AM | #2
You seem to be had been underestimated Sin DPS

I don't play Lethality in PVE enviroments in any situation, Engineer can also DoT with better AoE and out dps even on single target. Sniper has 2 other skill tree that works perfectly with single-target and to AoE them down.

Snipers "DO have Orbital Strike all the time" in Titan 6 everytime adds spawns after launch phase. I excel in both full Marksman/Engineer. Depends on what boss I'm fighting and what role my team demands so I can always field-respec.

Satedbuffalo's Avatar


Satedbuffalo
06.10.2013 , 08:21 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
Because sins can **** burst.
While assassins and shadows are definitely burst-capable, the plethora of execution-range abilities (predominantly in madness/balance, but also in deception/infiltration) puts this class in a very powerful position given the nature of boss fights in 2.0. As you note, rather than wailing on a single boss with millions of hitpoints, most encounters include a very large number of add phases. (TFB displays this to a limited degree - dread guards, power cores, anomolies, irregularities, tentacles - but S&V takes the cake here.)

Raid leaders sometimes take raw dps on a dummy to be indicative of performance in operations, without recognizing additional abilities available to a class. Given the nature of many current encounters, assassin/shadow dps absolutely have a place.

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
06.10.2013 , 08:33 AM | #4
This is why my sage has taken to running a hybrid spec in S&V, for at least some fights. Hybrid has less build up to it's full potential DPS, and even if that potential is less than full balance, I can't just sit and work my rotation on a single target for 7 minutes.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
06.10.2013 , 10:22 AM | #5
Dunno about burst but low ramp up classes certainly get the party going in the stop start recharge fights of SV

When thinking of my own class:

Gunnery: Ramp up basically non existent as it now needs to fire just 1 not 3x grav to fully buff on a target. Frankly it has the most vicious opening move of any ranged class: 1 1.5s cast +1 instant for up to 15k and that's just the opener.

Assault (as I play it): Never had ramp up but can ferociously burn ammo during burn phases then recharge during say Spines phase (only 10% dmg on boss), between robot waves, while running under shields.


Both branches can buff themselves in 1 gcd although assault also needs to wait on someones elses armour debuff for maximum ramp up.

I can see how target swapping can suck for a really long ramp up class like anni.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

KarethRiker's Avatar


KarethRiker
06.10.2013 , 11:01 AM | #6
I'd disagree slightly. In general I think the fights are good for bursts, but you can keep stacks of Annihlation up in all fights except Olok. It takes alot of work to keep them up in Titan 6, but it's doable. Make sure you get one Annihlation off before running for a rock and then leap on a probe immediately when the launch is over and get your annihlate in before stacks wear off.

First fight the only time mine runs off is if I'm in the desert.

TFB burst is still better, but keeping stacks up is doable as well except during add phase on baby phase on the TFB.
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TrillOG-'s Avatar


TrillOG-
06.10.2013 , 02:53 PM | #7
Ummm...what? I'm not sure if we're playing the same game but I have absolutely no issue doing 2200 and up dps on each of the fights except Olok for obvious reasons. I do about 2700 on a dummy with the gear I'm in now, and with all the downtime in these fights I'm pretty sure that isn't low at all. I have little trouble managing my stacks of merciless as well, it just takes some learning, and timing. Do burst classes have an advantage? Yes. But at the same time you could say that for just about any boss fight in the entire game outside of the beginner ops, meaning kp/ev. I will guarentee I, and many other lethality gunslingers/ watchman sentinels will do just as high of dps as a pure burst class, and if you are unable to, there is something you are doing wrong. Just because you and your friend did low numbers this one time doesnt make it true for everyone.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.10.2013 , 02:57 PM | #8
The way the raids are setup in this game your DPS is generally completely irrelevent until around 20% or whenever the boss starts fighting for real. This greatly favors burst DPS classes and especially classes that can execute. I don't really like this design. Most of the time it feels like what I do in the first 80% of the boss's health is completely irrelevent. The only way anything I do would matter is if I did something spectcularly dumb and wiped the raid. There is no positive contribution any player can do until the boss gets to the 'fight for real' phase, because it's all trivial compared to when the boss actually gets hard.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
06.10.2013 , 03:22 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
The way the raids are setup in this game your DPS is generally completely irrelevent until around 20% or whenever the boss starts fighting for real. This greatly favors burst DPS classes and especially classes that can execute. I don't really like this design. Most of the time it feels like what I do in the first 80% of the boss's health is completely irrelevent. The only way anything I do would matter is if I did something spectcularly dumb and wiped the raid. There is no positive contribution any player can do until the boss gets to the 'fight for real' phase, because it's all trivial compared to when the boss actually gets hard.
And yet wipes happen long before that 20%

A healer doesn't stand and heal, a tank doesn't just stand and tank and a dps doesn't just go for max damage.

Simple bosses are boring as hell which is why tests of individual and team organisation are mixed in to each fight especially the newer ones.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.10.2013 , 05:29 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
And yet wipes happen long before that 20%

A healer doesn't stand and heal, a tank doesn't just stand and tank and a dps doesn't just go for max damage.

Simple bosses are boring as hell which is why tests of individual and team organisation are mixed in to each fight especially the newer ones.
If you wipe before 20% your raid is nowhere close to actually beating the raid so there isn't even a point to talk about it. There's a fairly obvious design pattern of difficulty ramping up as the boss gets into execute range and the ramp up is so strong that there often is no point to worry about any point before that. If some guy somehow died prior to this point, he'd most definitely die during the soft enrage phase anyway and you'd still fail.