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New Level Cap = Delayed access to Keystone skills

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
New Level Cap = Delayed access to Keystone skills
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NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
06.07.2013 , 01:33 PM | #11
My suggestion is do away with the entire concept of earning points and spending them. The trees are mostly static anyway...if you want to tank, there are certain skills you are must pick up to be effective, and others that are optional. Same thing with healing. So rather than skill trees, just give us a choice of "profession". That choice of profession would automatically unlock the core buffs and skills at fixed character levels, as well as open up a small number of optional buffs and skills, again based on character level.

For the first tier of buffs/skills, just make those available to every profession. Maybe a couple of 2nd-tier talents as well, depending on what makes sense. All the 3rd-tier stuff and above, the stuff you worry about unbalancing the class, just gets locked behind the choice of the profession.

Oh, and come up with a better name than "profession". :-)

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
06.07.2013 , 01:36 PM | #12
you know, you guys could have just added a new keystone skill instead. keeping old skills where they are and creating new interesting abilities to place at the top of the talent tree.

as it stands right now, the game becomes somewhat.. unpleasant for about 5 levels before evening out again. and its just not fun, especially when you are an altoholic in a game that encourages you to roll moar alts. :/

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
06.07.2013 , 01:39 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by NoFishing View Post
My suggestion is do away with the entire concept of earning points and spending them. The trees are mostly static anyway...if you want to tank, there are certain skills you are must pick up to be effective, and others that are optional. Same thing with healing. So rather than skill trees, just give us a choice of "profession". That choice of profession would automatically unlock the core buffs and skills at fixed character levels, as well as open up a small number of optional buffs and skills, again based on character level.

For the first tier of buffs/skills, just make those available to every profession. Maybe a couple of 2nd-tier talents as well, depending on what makes sense. All the 3rd-tier stuff and above, the stuff you worry about unbalancing the class, just gets locked behind the choice of the profession.

Oh, and come up with a better name than "profession". :-)
the way wow does it right now?

I won't claim about others, but please god, no. it would make the game less fun for me.

there's still a bit of wiggle room here and there in talents trees and you can customize your experience a fair bit, you can even chose to sacrifice certain keystone abilities for more points spent in another tree.

what you are proposing removes any possibility of hybrid builds, removes any possibility of having fun with your playstyle and just.. blah.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
06.07.2013 , 02:02 PM | #14
All of the top end talents should be stat and performance improvements IMO, except for the keystone skill.

I also think a gate lock would help, though I understand some folks would not be happy about that.

I would have suggested a complete ability tree revamp, with simplification/reduction of the specials, improvements to how those specials act, then stat and performance boosts until the very top ability.

I think very early on all classes should get the lions share of their abilities and simply improve them/change how they work slightly as they move up....instead of having three different types of the same skill with different mechanics.

Instead it should be one skill, and that skill should transform as you level up.

schmel's Avatar


schmel
06.08.2013 , 12:07 AM | #15
This was definitely a huge disappointment for me. The way they were promoting it, I naturally assumed that they were planning to expand the trees "upward" instead of outward, and replete with new capstone skills. I even thought players might be given a fourth skill tree! That was my mistake, I guess--they never said anything explicitly to that effect and if I'd known Bioware then as I do now, I'd have realized they were over-hyping the expansion as usual, including the new skill trees. A couple "10% extra critical damage on Attack Q" abilities were quite the letdown. Also, expanding "outward" just makes for more skills that I don't want, but that I have to take in order to have enough points to be able to select from the next tier of the tree.
Also, I think it is downright disgusting how they used the skill tree as another way to FORCE players to buy the expansion. As another poster pointed out, many of the new skills are for abilities that you can ONLY get if you buy the expansion.
"You took time out of your day to NOT answer the question, but tell me that you don't like them. That is what your adult mind thought would be a good use of your time and effort, sidetracking a very basic question, so that other people would hear your opinion on something that you don't even care that much about."--Atownarmy

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
06.08.2013 , 01:33 AM | #16
Now, see, I'm of the opposite opinion. I like that once I have completed the tree I can put a few points into another tree. As a Sorc I chose to put some points into boosting my willpower and lowering my cast times. I had more points than usual left over because I didn't choose damage reduction which I thought was a waste of points.

This gave me a good damage boost and increased my DPS substantially, and as a healing spec it was substantial to me to increase my overall damage, giving my spec a more enjoyable solo experience. Leveling a pure healer was not fun in quite a few spots in the leveling process.

At any rate I'd love to have 5 more points to spend, and would love to have some kind of leech ability. I am hoping, if they choose to raise it up another 5, they will allow us to just add more points in another tree and give us a new unique ability to train.

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
06.08.2013 , 02:36 AM | #17
It does make a difference but I've leveled 6 toons to 55 now and I can't say it really made much of a difference except for my main that I leveled first and I managed.

What I find funny is that people think this skill is essential to level to 55 and it simply isn't. What I see is a lot of people who are poorly geared and their companions alike and then going around blaming everything except their lack of gear. Gear up, it's not that hard at level 50. You really are oblivious if you don't know how to get yourself fully geared with pruple 58 mods from the planetary vendor of Makeb. And that's just one option to gear up at 50+
Et In Gehenna Ego Vixi

#RemoveRNG

clearsighted's Avatar


clearsighted
06.08.2013 , 04:40 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
This is due to the nature of how skill trees work with level expansions.

When you give more skill points to spend to a player, you also make it possible for them to buy more combinations of the lowest level branches of multiple skill trees. They can, for example, buy the lowest level keystone abilities for both a strong DPS character AND a tank, and make characters that are virtually impossible to balance correctly (the classic 'magetank').

We're not thrilled with this, of course. We'd really like for tank classes to be able to tank as quickly as possible. However, some things would need to be rethought before this can be a reality. It's definitely something that will get more thought before we ever raise the level cap again.
Hi Damon,

I know the reasoning. Believe me, I'd be much more worked out of shape if I thought it random or ill conceived. There are perfectly sound gameplay reasons behind it. But coming from someone that's leveled up under the old system, and under the new, there is definitely a five level stretch where I just feel entirely out of sorts. And in fact, I feel like the game content itself is designed in that level range, expecting me to be complete.

I definitely hope that if the level cap is raised to 60, that something will be done about this. Because if I were to have to wait to Makeb to unlock my final keystone ability, I would find it much more unpleasant. I'm sure there's some creative work-around that'll occur to someone before that point.

Perhaps the answer is a new kind of tree or place to put points after a certain stage. There's only so long you can go with stacking on new abilities or passives to what feels like to me, finished playstyles.

clearsighted's Avatar


clearsighted
06.08.2013 , 05:17 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
It does make a difference but I've leveled 6 toons to 55 now and I can't say it really made much of a difference except for my main that I leveled first and I managed.

What I find funny is that people think this skill is essential to level to 55 and it simply isn't. What I see is a lot of people who are poorly geared and their companions alike and then going around blaming everything except their lack of gear. Gear up, it's not that hard at level 50. You really are oblivious if you don't know how to get yourself fully geared with pruple 58 mods from the planetary vendor of Makeb. And that's just one option to gear up at 50+
I think for most people it's not so much a raw difficulty issue, as it simply feels uneven. Whether you level up in all purples, or in whites you bought off the vendor. There is a certain 'flow' to a completed tree when everything comes together and you start building on it, and really getting to feel it, and it's sad that time is delayed. I would have loved an extra 5 levels with a complete tree, whatever hurdles there was to keep people from putting in more than 10 skill points in any other tree.

Turshek's Avatar


Turshek
06.08.2013 , 06:04 AM | #20
The problem is not difficulty but how some classes/trees mature earlier or later than others.

I'm currently leveling a Vengeance Juggernaut, 2 of the key skills of that tree are available only at 45+, Shatter comes from the tree at 45 and Vicious Throw from the trainer at 46. You get Impale at 30 but that's the only thing you got for 15 levels to proc what gives this specialization its feel, the (almost) auto-crit on Force Scream and the cooldown reset on Ravage. You even spend points on improving Vicious Throw BEFORE you can train it.

That's one example of a tree that got all its pieces assembled quite late compared to some others. I noticed on 2 occasions people on general chat complaining about DPS Juggernauts, because of their relatively lower DPS caused by missing key skills for too long. One of the guys was even saying to remove DPS trees until 50+ for Juggernauts as he was annoyed with how slow they kill things in low level flashpoints.