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awesome job bioware for caving to the l33t stun loving pvpers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
awesome job bioware for caving to the l33t stun loving pvpers
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astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
06.06.2013 , 09:04 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post
I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.
look at my post above, but whatever man. i had my QQmilk for the day.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
Because Bioware won't let my have the Jewel of the Dark Side, which would amplify my powers and allow me to take control of the galaxy in my bid for a tyrannical dictatorship.
Poo-doo.

islander's Avatar


islander
06.06.2013 , 09:04 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post
I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.
It's a near impossible balance catering to PvPers (or PvEers) of various skill levels. Everyone's got the same ability to post on the forums, and not having an idea of a posters actual ability to play the game makes assessing the validity of criticisms challenging, I'm sure.

That said, I really think adjusting how resolve works is the smarter way to go about it. it's a great mechanism that I feel has been underutilized from a CC management perspective from the dev group.
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Asavrede's Avatar


Asavrede
06.06.2013 , 09:11 AM | #53
Forums are frequented by less than 10% of the playerbase in most games, yet those 10% whine enough to get the changes they want.

Anyway, I think there is way too much CC in PvP - doing away with it almost entirely might not be a bad thing. Certainly stun breaks could be on (much) shorter cooldowns. Resetting on death sounded like a great idea - why was it rolled back??

Also ... immunity timers for out of combat CC. Please.

DimeStax's Avatar


DimeStax
06.06.2013 , 09:27 AM | #54
Rather than making certain classes have passive abilities that make them stronger or weaker (like tanks with insane amounts of passive armor, hp, or healing on their gear) the Devs designed the game around player abilities which when used properly would extend their life (stuns, cooldowns, stun-breakers etc). That's why there is so much CC in the game.

Your survivability depends on how well you use your CC's, and less on the mitigation from your gear. If they nerf CC's then they have to buff mitigation and that essentially just "dumbs-down" the game which nobody wants.
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
06.06.2013 , 09:28 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post
I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.
Thank you for commenting Bruce.

Honestly, the change would have done more harm than good with the more seasoned players...you made the right call not implementing it now. CC's ARE a big issue though and I truly hope you pursue other ways to minimize how much of an impact they actually have in PvP - the frustration they create is huge. CC's are needed...just not in the quantity we currently have.

My suggestions:
- cut the cooldown on CC breaks in half (or reduce on damage)
- 50% or 75% less damage while CC'd (stunned), this would make it a tactical play, not a way to beat an enemy to death while they sit there defenseless
- stun breaks on full Resolve
- Resolve lasts longer
- revert to the pre 1.4 Resolve system (overlapping CC's stack, filling Resolve quicker)

Any one of these changes (not all of them), would drastically help reduce the effect (and frustration) CC's have in PvP, without changing their core function. Again, we need CC's, we just don't need them to frustrate players to the point of quitting.

Personally, I think the best possible change you could make would be to reduce the damage taken by a player who is CC'd (stunned). That leaves all the current mechanics in place, but reduces the feeling players have of being "stunned to death".
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astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
06.06.2013 , 09:34 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post

Personally, I think the best possible change you could make would be to reduce the damage taken by a player who is CC'd (stunned). That leaves all the current mechanics in place, but reduces the feeling players have of being "stunned to death".
this is a excellent idea.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
Because Bioware won't let my have the Jewel of the Dark Side, which would amplify my powers and allow me to take control of the galaxy in my bid for a tyrannical dictatorship.
Poo-doo.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
06.06.2013 , 09:38 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Asavrede View Post
Forums are frequented by less than 10% of the playerbase in most games, yet those 10% whine enough to get the changes they want.

Anyway, I think there is way too much CC in PvP - doing away with it almost entirely might not be a bad thing. Certainly stun breaks could be on (much) shorter cooldowns. Resetting on death sounded like a great idea - why was it rolled back??

Also ... immunity timers for out of combat CC. Please.
Well the only way to voice opinions/concerns/ideas is on the forums, its the way it has always been done.

Too much CC, yes, sometimes it feels like it. Doing away with CC would be one of the worst things to do. You would never be able to bring down certain classes and forget about capping objectives or stalliing on defense.

CC is needed for this game and it used to be way better prior to 1.4

Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Personally, I think the best possible change you could make would be to reduce the damage taken by a player who is CC'd (stunned). That leaves all the current mechanics in place, but reduces the feeling players have of being "stunned to death".
Actually madness sins have an ability to reduce damage by 30% while stunned. The only problem is madness assassins is one of the if not the worst full spec in the game.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
06.06.2013 , 09:47 AM | #58
I hope, ultimately, that everyone that enters PvP is shooting to be the best that they can possibly be. It's difficult to balance a game where the difference in skill between players is so great (some who rarely join warzones and some rarely do anything else). It's a fine line between helping less skilled players avoid hurting their chances of winning simply from a lack of knowledge and taking away any way to have competitive PvP of some kind.

If you've followed the top rated teams at all, you would know that objectives rarely get capped and matches generally come down to whatever the tie breaker is or whoever runs to one node first. Ensuring everyone has a CC break every life only decreases the chances of this changing.

Outside of competitive games, it basically takes away any chance of CC capping anything. Knowing when to use your CC break is important. You can say that this isn't a true measure of skill (the devs have), but if you're going to die from 3 people stunning you to death, having your CC break on this life means nothing. It gives the illusion that you have more control, because you can break that stun knowing you will have it back in 2 seconds when you die. The only reason for breaking this CC would be to stop a cap or possibly get a last hit in on someone and that will still be an option without CC break resetting, unless you used it previously.

I don't have a problem with necessary changes for the greater PvP community, but you already made one change to resolve that catered to those who don't understand how it works and it made stuns significantly worse. Making another change to fix that by catering to those who don't know what they are doing doesn't seem like the right move to make.

I'll be honest, CC should be used far more tactically than it is in this game and the cause of the problem is the enormous amount of hard CC in this game. No one wants to get beat up while unable to move, but soft CC is a tactical move (ability to escape, ability to CC cap, maybe even waiting on a CD) and you won't die during it most likely. The argument was made that stuns are necessary for PvE content, but I have never NEEDED a hard stun at any point in leveling, FPs or Ops. If you still feel extremely strongly it's necessary, then make them PvE only abilities.

This leaves CC available for it's intent. Change current hard stuns to a much shorter duration (say 2 seconds) or remove hard stuns from classes that don't rely on CC (op/soundrel and sin/shadow are pretty CC dependent) and replace with soft CC and/or channeled CC ( like force choke) where you can't be attacked by the person performing the CC at least. It will cut down on the amount of damage you take while CC'd without removing the amount of CC available for tactical use. Add talents to DoT heavy trees to allow soft CC to ignore DoT damage.

TL;DR Find a way to make people feel like they are stunned to death less without ruining mechanics necessary for organized PvP to function as intended.
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xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
06.06.2013 , 09:49 AM | #59
this games pvp is crap anyway worse i have ever seen. after 2.0 it actually managed to become even more *******r, which tbh i thought it was impossible, this game is dieing if not already dead, EA is just trying to milk what they can before the inevitable fail.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
06.06.2013 , 09:51 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
I'll be honest, CC should be used far more tactically than it is in this game and the cause of the problem is the enormous amount of hard CC in this game. No one wants to get beat up while unable to move, but soft CC is a tactical move (ability to escape, ability to CC cap, maybe even waiting on a CD) and you won't die during it most likely. The argument was made that stuns are necessary for PvE content, but I have never NEEDED a hard stun at any point in leveling, FPs or Ops. If you still feel extremely strongly it's necessary, then make them PvE only abilities.
This was the reasoning behind changing how resolve build up because players used stuns like they were going out of style.