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awesome job bioware for caving to the l33t stun loving pvpers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
awesome job bioware for caving to the l33t stun loving pvpers
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Mharz's Avatar


Mharz
06.06.2013 , 03:46 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Zalgred View Post
Wow you have no idea of how pvp is in this game... have you played a healing class on pvp?

Jesus, stuns can be of a lot of use for some classes in pvp... healer gets attack by a dps, he stuns him and run away, and live to fight for a few more seconds... If there were no stuns that healers would be dead in like 2 seconds.

The thing with this game is that's stuns are out of control and some classes and groups of player are abusing from them, like when you get stun locked to death without being able to do anything. But if you had the 10 seconds immunity i was telling you about you could get stunned but maybe live, and the rest of chain stuns that would go after the first will be useless...
I actually understand PvP very well thanks and yes I heal either part time or full time on both a sage/sorc and a Smuggler/Operative. I never cared for trooper/Merc heals so I didn't do that too long so I can't comment there. I'm not sure how you play but I get focused healing and sometimes last a surprisingly long time with 2-3 on me with some self healing, a guard and sometimes some cross healing. If anything, I think healing is sorta silly at the moment because a couple of good healers working together can break most teams.

All this said I'm not sure I can agree with you that healers need stuns.

I do agree with you that stuns are out of control in this game and there needs to be far less of them, and in my opinion, no stuns, at all, in PvP without some massive penalty for use like a 5 minute immunity or 100% damage reduction while stunned.
#The Furious Angels#
Mharz - Master of Aequitas
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
06.06.2013 , 04:11 PM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Mharz View Post
I actually understand PvP very well thanks and yes I heal either part time or full time on both a sage/sorc and a Smuggler/Operative. I never cared for trooper/Merc heals so I didn't do that too long so I can't comment there. I'm not sure how you play but I get focused healing and sometimes last a surprisingly long time with 2-3 on me with some self healing, a guard and sometimes some cross healing. If anything, I think healing is sorta silly at the moment because a couple of good healers working together can break most teams.

All this said I'm not sure I can agree with you that healers need stuns.

I do agree with you that stuns are out of control in this game and there needs to be far less of them, and in my opinion, no stuns, at all, in PvP without some massive penalty for use like a 5 minute immunity or 100% damage reduction while stunned.
Quote: Originally Posted by Mharz View Post
You misunderstand. I'm not saying remove stuns. I'm saying make the use of stuns, in WZs, so painful that you want to do it only as a last resort and that if you have to do it you will never be able to kill the person you stunned.
You play the strongest healing class along with a great healing class with good utility. I cannot believe you think that 'removing' stuns (sounds like that's what you want) would be a good thing. With how healing works and how some dps specs work I can say for certain that it would be impossible to play in warzones if you could not control a character in which you could not do damage to them as you say adding a 100% damage reduction or a 5 minute immunity which is almost half a huttball, so goodbye killing healers or stopping a character or capping a node if the entire team either cannot be damaged while stunned or are immune for 5 minutes...

Pyrinoos's Avatar


Pyrinoos
06.06.2013 , 04:22 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Mharz View Post
I do agree with you that stuns are out of control in this game and there needs to be far less of them, and in my opinion, no stuns, at all, in PvP without some massive penalty for use like a 5 minute immunity or 100% damage reduction while stunned.
You have no idea how pvp works in this game or about class balance. How exactly would a deception sin or a concealment op work with that type of a change? Their openers are stuns! They would do 0 damage!

How in the world would you capture an objective consistently without stuns. The game is not a dps/heal race, it is objective based pvp. Stuns are not 0 skill moves, they are game skills which when used properly demonstrate a greater understanding of the game.
<Silent Council> Lamech - Assassin | A'chan - Mercenary
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Slade legacy on The Ebon Hawk

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
06.06.2013 , 04:23 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilora View Post
Oh no, the sky is falling!

Funny, this PvP is leagues more balanced than many other games. Yeah, it definitely has issues that need to be addressed, but it isn't the worst out there, not by a long shot.

And LOL, game is dying?! Where have you been? Did you see the last earnings call? Notice any of the new additions to files in datamines? Take that as a no. . .

"Funny, this PvP is leagues more balanced than many other games." --> Lol really? so smashmonkeys are balanced? and OP healers and snipers? right...
F2P? no Endgame ... do you really need more? its right in front of your eyes. But anyway no point arguing with fanboys.

Mharz's Avatar


Mharz
06.06.2013 , 04:30 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
You play the strongest healing class along with a great healing class with good utility. I cannot believe you think that 'removing' stuns (sounds like that's what you want) would be a good thing. With how healing works and how some dps specs work I can say for certain that it would be impossible to play in warzones if you could not control a character in which you could not do damage to them as you say adding a 100% damage reduction or a 5 minute immunity which is almost half a huttball, so goodbye killing healers or stopping a character or capping a node if the entire team either cannot be damaged while stunned or are immune for 5 minutes...
So you don't think you could slow a target, focus the target, and kill the target? I do it all the time. Hutball is ripe with silly hazzards you can push, pull, slow or throw people into for more damage and kill them. Focused damage and skillful play is the solution to the cheap easy way of the stun.

My challenge to you, and to everyone else that doesn't believe it is to go to your next few WZs and take stun off your bar. Keep your other CCs like slow, root, mez and knockbacks. Play the match. Play a few matches. What you'll find (if you learn quickly) is that you can use other methods to focus and kill targets and win games. That's what I did and I normally win a good number of matches and usually am near the top of the medal board with respectable damage/healing/prot. Not always the top but usually near the top.

The stun is a cheap crutch in PvP. Its time to get rid of it or make it less of an "I win" button, because that's what it is right now.
#The Furious Angels#
Mharz - Master of Aequitas
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Ultramecha's Avatar


Ultramecha
06.06.2013 , 04:34 PM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
"Funny, this PvP is leagues more balanced than many other games." --> Lol really? so smashmonkeys are balanced? and OP healers and snipers? right...
F2P? no Endgame ... do you really need more? its right in front of your eyes. But anyway no point arguing with fanboys.
I love it when people call others fanboys. Seriously if you hate the game why are you playing it? Unless of course your a fanboy as well.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
06.06.2013 , 04:36 PM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Mharz View Post
So you don't think you could slow a target, focus the target, and kill the target? I do it all the time. Hutball is ripe with silly hazzards you can push, pull, slow or throw people into for more damage and kill them. Focused damage and skillful play is the solution to the cheap easy way of the stun.

My challenge to you, and to everyone else that doesn't believe it is to go to your next few WZs and take stun off your bar. Keep your other CCs like slow, root, mez and knockbacks. Play the match. Play a few matches. What you'll find (if you learn quickly) is that you can use other methods to focus and kill targets and win games. That's what I did and I normally win a good number of matches and usually am near the top of the medal board with respectable damage/healing/prot. Not always the top but usually near the top.

The stun is a cheap crutch in PvP. Its time to get rid of it or make it less of an "I win" button, because that's what it is right now.
**** it I tried.

Remove stuns completely from PvP and I would love to see what happens.

Mharz's Avatar


Mharz
06.06.2013 , 04:37 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by Pyrinoos View Post
You have no idea how pvp works in this game or about class balance. How exactly would a deception sin or a concealment op work with that type of a change? Their openers are stuns! They would do 0 damage!

How in the world would you capture an objective consistently without stuns. The game is not a dps/heal race, it is objective based pvp. Stuns are not 0 skill moves, they are game skills which when used properly demonstrate a greater understanding of the game.
You assume far too much. I've forgotten more about PvP in this game than most people will ever know. Sorry that's the sad fact. I haven't play deception spec in a while but I normally run with someone that does and he normally tops the charts and nearly never stuns. He doesn't need to because he knows how to play very well.

Also, just as a point of reference, your opener is never a stun. At least is shouldn't be if you're trying to burst a target down.

And I would capture an objective the same way I do everyday now. I target, I focus dps, and I kill people.

I understand your view but I disagree. In my mind, every stun says, "I can't beat you with my skill so I'll use some cheap, zero skill move for an advantage." I think that the advantage should come from your skill, your set up, and your execution of play, not some cheap "I win" button. I know this idea is new to a lot of people but I would encourage trying it out. PvP is a lot more fun that way.
#The Furious Angels#
Mharz - Master of Aequitas
Website|The Signal|HQ
Libertas|Emeritus|Veritas|Aequitas|Praelium|Ad Astra|Velox

Mharz's Avatar


Mharz
06.06.2013 , 04:39 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
Remove stuns completely from PvP and I would love to see what happens.
Me too! Look a convert! Only a million or so more to go! Who's next?!
#The Furious Angels#
Mharz - Master of Aequitas
Website|The Signal|HQ
Libertas|Emeritus|Veritas|Aequitas|Praelium|Ad Astra|Velox

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
06.06.2013 , 04:51 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post
I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.
There was alot of folks that was very vocal about the changes that came with patch 1.4 and its still a first class example of how oppresive the CC can be. I can def agree the reset was a bad idea, it would make capping very hard. but also being constantly stun locked is kinda the wrong direction. cant there be a middle ground that can be reached? where the stuns effect resolve a little more and if you die while stunned the resolve bar does not start to drop untill you are let out of the rez zone, or perhaps drop slower?

Some of my suggestion might be good for some and not for others but doing something about the resolve issue is what i feel should be focused on. and i believe most maybe not all but most of the pvpers can agree needs a fix.
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