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Sunder's The End and Saber Reflect


wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
06.03.2013 , 09:39 AM | #11
I tanked Sunder in sm yesterday and Saber Reflect saved my butt.

Are you talking about sm or hm ?

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
06.03.2013 , 10:05 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
Somewhat related.

What is the reason behind leaving Sunder last? Tu'chuk's soft enrage is really easy. Is it for challenge?
This has been discussed quite a bit before. Killing Sunder last leaves ENORMOUS margins for essentially everyone in the group. It essentially negates the hard enrage, since Resilience/Saber Reflect continue to work even after the hard enrage point. It also eases the healing tremendously since the adds can be focused down. Granted, the Sunder adds do a lot more damage than the Tu'chuk adds, but still. Our healers can literally just DPS once the adds are dead, because no more damage will be taken by anyone after that point. Additionally, killing Sunder last bypasses the Fixate mechanic. This is precisely why my group does it, since we only have a single melee DPS. It allows us to maintain significantly higher DPS uptime over the length of the fight.

The only real downside to killing Sunder last is the fact that you a) cannot bring a vanguard tank, and b) your tanks need to be competent at life when it comes to cooldown timing. I've done this strategy with several tanks who I wouldn't consider to be cream of the crop, and even then, it still went just fine. When you tell someone to press Resilience RIGHT NOW, they're usually pretty good about hitting it.

So overall, killing Sunder last leaves the widest margins of any strategy which is precisely the point of a good strategy: providing the most cushion to absorb RNG/derp/low dps/whatever and allow the group to reliably clear the boss. I honestly don't see why you *wouldn't* kill Sunder last, except if you have a Vanguard. Killing Tu'chuk last is much more challenging for everyone involved.

(note: my group has variously killed each of the bosses last, and even killed them all at the same time, so it's not like we haven't tried the "standard" strategy)
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

ChewyYui's Avatar


ChewyYui
06.03.2013 , 10:22 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Moestuin View Post
We recently switched from killing Sunder last to killing Tu'chuck last, but before that saber reflect always worked fine on Sunders ability.
We've done that too! Before, the way we got past Sunder was having the two shadows in the group resilience "The End" but after having only one shadow one night, decided to switch to Chuckie last, and found its better over all.
The Progenitor - The Alteric Legacy - Kira-chan

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
06.03.2013 , 10:24 AM | #14
I heard good opinion about the killing the stealthy guy last. What do you think about that?

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
06.03.2013 , 10:38 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by AAAAzrael View Post
I heard good opinion about the killing the stealthy guy last. What do you think about that?
It's one heck of a heal check. Stabbing Spree does a lot of damage, and it has the potential to take out a healer (which really sucks). Additionally, the Vilas Garr adds *all* Explosive Surge. Since everyone is grouped up to kill Vilas, that's basically a 15-20k surge of damage to everyone in the group simultaneously. We've done it in hard mode, but I really don't recommend it.

The only strategy which is *harder* to heal than Vilas last is Horric last.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
06.03.2013 , 10:54 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post

(note: my group has variously killed each of the bosses last, and even killed them all at the same time, so it's not like we haven't tried the "standard" strategy)
For our next hm run (we cleared it twice now, leaving Tuchuk for last), I'm goin to suggest a mix of that. Horric and stealth dude first and then get both Sunder and Tuchuk at like 10% or less, so whoever is left for last, won't make much difference anyway

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
06.03.2013 , 10:55 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
For our next hm run (we cleared it twice now, leaving Tuchuk for last), I'm goin to suggest a mix of that. Horric and stealth dude first and then get both Sunder and Tuchuk at like 10% or less, so whoever is left for last, won't make much difference anyway
They heal up. Not quite to full, but close. You either have to kill them simultaneously (a Focus knight works really well here) or leave one of them untouched until the other is dead.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
06.03.2013 , 11:31 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
They heal up. Not quite to full, but close. You either have to kill them simultaneously (a Focus knight works really well here) or leave one of them untouched until the other is dead.
oh, I didn't know of they healed up like that. Then I guess it would be a good chance to try lolsmash on them with my mara. Though it'd be a b****** to leave them both at like 6k health (dont know for how much my mara can crit a smash atm) or less when you run with a Lethality sniper and Madness sorc

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
06.03.2013 , 12:05 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
oh, I didn't know of they healed up like that. Then I guess it would be a good chance to try lolsmash on them with my mara. Though it'd be a b****** to leave them both at like 6k health (dont know for how much my mara can crit a smash atm) or less when you run with a Lethality sniper and Madness sorc
It's tricky. We usually massage them down to about 10-15k, then basic attack them to 5k. After that, we group up, the sentinel Force Leaps to Sunder (since that does less damage than Zealous Leap), and once Vilas appears pops Valorous + Zen + Force Sweep and they all die. You do need to have VERY disciplined DPS, but it's not difficult per se. The advantage is you bypass every single mechanic in the fight.

Video here from the first time we did it, if you're curious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUsr9gD1OlA We gave a long explanation for the first-timers in the video, so you might want to jump to where the fight actually starts (it's linked in the summary).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
06.04.2013 , 11:16 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
It's tricky. We usually massage them down to about 10-15k, then basic attack them to 5k. After that, we group up, the sentinel Force Leaps to Sunder (since that does less damage than Zealous Leap), and once Vilas appears pops Valorous + Zen + Force Sweep and they all die. You do need to have VERY disciplined DPS, but it's not difficult per se. The advantage is you bypass every single mechanic in the fight.

Video here from the first time we did it, if you're curious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUsr9gD1OlA We gave a long explanation for the first-timers in the video, so you might want to jump to where the fight actually starts (it's linked in the summary).
Oh, that was really cool !

Was that on hm or sm ?

Not sure we can pull it off with all 4, but I was thinking more of doing that with only Tuchuk and Sunder, perhaps a bit more controlled without the other 2 bossess putting potentially a lot of random group damage.