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Sunder's The End and Saber Reflect


MarkasLin's Avatar


MarkasLin
06.01.2013 , 11:17 PM | #1
I love tanking on my Juggernought, and no boss is more fun than Sunder from the Cartel Warlords encounter. Especially considering Saber Reflect.
Now one of my friends tell that Saber Reflect no longer reflects the damage from Sunder's ability "The End".
Is that truly the case?
I cannot find any information to this effect anywhere in the patch notes.
I'd love to know.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
06.02.2013 , 04:35 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by MarkasLin View Post
I love tanking on my Juggernought, and no boss is more fun than Sunder from the Cartel Warlords encounter. Especially considering Saber Reflect.
Now one of my friends tell that Saber Reflect no longer reflects the damage from Sunder's ability "The End".
Is that truly the case?
I cannot find any information to this effect anywhere in the patch notes.
I'd love to know.
That would be a major nerf to the ability, and I don't think it's one that would go without mention. My group does kill sunder last, and we do occasionally run with a guardian tank, but we didn't do so this week (double shadows instead). There may be a bug there, but I couldn't tell you for sure. I know that resilience/force shroud is currently very buggy and sometimes fails to mitigate things. It's possible saber reflect is afflicted with the same issue, though this would be the first I've heard of it.
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
06.02.2013 , 07:02 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by MarkasLin View Post
I love tanking on my Juggernought, and no boss is more fun than Sunder from the Cartel Warlords encounter. Especially considering Saber Reflect.
Now one of my friends tell that Saber Reflect no longer reflects the damage from Sunder's ability "The End".
Is that truly the case?
I cannot find any information to this effect anywhere in the patch notes.
I'd love to know.
I don't see why or how that would happen. It's possible he just resisted it or there was a lag/sync issue. Saber Reflect isn't subject to accuracy beyond the chance for the attack to be resisted or dodged instead of reflected. My guild kills Tu'chuk last so we don't deal with the ability but mechanically it SHOULD work. Given that Resilience still works we can conclude its still Force/Tech, so unless its suddenly an AoE ability....
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.02.2013 , 07:23 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
I don't see why or how that would happen. It's possible he just resisted it or there was a lag/sync issue. Saber Reflect isn't subject to accuracy beyond the chance for the attack to be resisted or dodged instead of reflected. My guild kills Tu'chuk last so we don't deal with the ability but mechanically it SHOULD work. Given that Resilience still works we can conclude its still Force/Tech, so unless its suddenly an AoE ability....
The only 2 possibilities in my mind are that it suddenly became an AoE (as you said, incredibly unlikely) or the Resilience bug has infected Saber Reflect. My guess is that, if the bug affects Saber Reflect, the devs are much more likely to jump on it, especially since it indicates that it's not a hit/miss issue. I still think that it's a packet loss issue where the server doesn't learn that Resilience was used until several seconds after the client sends it and only catches it when the client resyncs or resends the information 1-2 seconds down the line. It would grok with the fact that combat logs (which are tracked through the client) don't catch it while also explaining why it's so hard to reproduce (and, if the testing is done on their local, in-house servers, why it's near impossible for them to find it at all under test conditions).
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Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
06.02.2013 , 08:39 PM | #5
Just to rule out the most simple and formerly overlooked cause.
Did your friend account for the travel time of the ability?
If Saber Reflect runs out before the "damage wave" gets to you but after the cast is finished you'll take damage, at least it happened to me once with Force Shroud and I've avoided it ever after.

Oh and just to repeat what everyone has been saying in vain for a dev to notice: Resilience/Force Shroud is bugged and sometimes does not work, might be due to ability, client or specific bosses. Although only the first two are likely.

It's unlikely that the Force Shroud/Resilience bug has "infected" Saber Reflect since whether they work or not is determined by different parameters. Resilience looks at damage type (K/E vs I/E) and Saber Reflect looks at attack type (singular vs aoe, T/F only though). Unless it's the client lagging, or experiencing package loss.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
06.02.2013 , 08:59 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Panzerfire View Post
Resilience looks at damage type (K/E vs I/E) and Saber Reflect looks at attack type (singular vs aoe, T/F only though). Unless it's the client lagging, or experiencing package loss.
Uh.. no. Resilience looks at attack type and is only effective against Force/Tech and not against Melee/Ranged. The damage type is irrelevant but all I/E damage is from F/T attacks so I can see how you might get confused there. Saber Reflect on the other hand only applies to single target (not an AoE), direct damage (ie. not DoTs, although the first tick will still get reflected if its a ST F/T or Ranged ability) Force, Tech or Ranged (anything but Melee) attack.
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Panzerfire's Avatar


Panzerfire
06.02.2013 , 09:09 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
Uh.. no. Resilience looks at attack type and is only effective against Force/Tech and not against Melee/Ranged. The damage type is irrelevant but all I/E damage is from F/T attacks so I can see how you might get confused there. Saber Reflect on the other hand only applies to single target (not an AoE), direct damage (ie. not DoTs, although the first tick will still get reflected if its a ST F/T or Ranged ability) Force, Tech or Ranged (anything but Melee) attack.
Oh.. ok. I thought Resilience looked at I/E type of attacks since "melee attacks" like the damage part of the knockback on EC Kephess also gets resisted, but I guess it's a Tech attack then, same for Terminate. Saber Reflect I got the Ranged part wrong ^^

What about the travel time theory? If the mob finishes the cast then its attack has been "assigned" to the person it was targeting at the start of the cast. Once the attack hits it is determined what happens to it. At least it seems like that on Sunder.

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
06.02.2013 , 10:59 PM | #8
Somewhat related.

What is the reason behind leaving Sunder last? Tu'chuk's soft enrage is really easy. Is it for challenge?
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Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
06.02.2013 , 11:13 PM | #9
I haven't tanked this fight in a few weeks, but it has always worked for me. Something I haven't seen mentioned though is the reflected damage cap. Perhaps OP was expecting to reflect 30k rather than 4.7k?
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Moestuin
06.03.2013 , 01:11 AM | #10
We recently switched from killing Sunder last to killing Tu'chuck last, but before that saber reflect always worked fine on Sunders ability.