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2.2 Tank Builds


dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
08.07.2013 , 12:32 PM | #111
another thing to note is that in endgame content around 20 to 35% of the k/e damage is f/t... which means that defense wont work on them, but shield will. how this translates into abilities im not sure. for the time being i have tried to set up a swing timer of 0.87 seconds and populate defese, shield and proc rolls (shield relic doesnt need to roll). i have set it so every 5th attack is a force attack, which defense doesnt matter for... but if u look at most parses, it seems more like 100 melee/ranged attacks for every one force/tyech ability...so the model needs to start off in the right direction before i start dealing with setting the conditions for a type of roll for the next x swings or whatever.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
08.07.2013 , 12:39 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
THEY BROKE THE RELICS! sometimes between pts and live for 2.3
I've tested this on live with an abs proc relic and a def proc relic. They proc independently just fine.
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dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
08.07.2013 , 12:51 PM | #113
yeah. i guess they are just broken for pvp... still sadlol

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
08.07.2013 , 04:19 PM | #114
first off, this is prolly the most complex simulation i have done. i used vangauard kd numbers and compared how the same rolls would result in different damage numbers between a def_proc+shield_proc setup versus a def_proc+pvp setup. the raw data here for 86 iterations:

d+s d+pvp pvp minus both
138.8408 138.1382 -0.7026
137.4645 137.832 0.3675
133.2363 132.7506 -0.4857
141.9549 142.3966 0.4417
149.4809 149.6072 0.1263
136.5785 134.9276 -1.6509
146.8675 147.655 0.7875
140.8483 141.478 0.6297
142.4556 142.1382 -0.3174
128.5963 128.3152 -0.2811
145.3579 145.655 0.2971
132.0423 131.832 -0.2103
138.8067 139.1382 0.3315
143.7875 142.832 -0.9555
133.5178 133.5736 0.0558
134.2985 133.6214 -0.6771
133.3668 133.9134 0.5466
144.4364 143.9612 -0.4752
126.386 127.0904 0.7044
132.4009 131.3488 -1.0521
138.0601 137.9612 -0.0989
139.069 140.655 1.586
138.4378 139.5736 1.1358
142.903 144.2674 1.3644
140.4542 140.7842 0.33
149.3238 150.2196 0.8958
140.4112 140.5258 0.1146
133.5772 132.478 -1.0992
137.4556 136.009 -1.4466
135.2971 135.2674 -0.0297
142.0587 142.7364 0.6777
133.6468 132.655 -0.9918
134.694 134.7984 0.1044
136.7459 137.0568 0.3109
141.8586 143.655 1.7964
137.6052 139.009 1.4038
137.4986 137.9612 0.4626
134.4542 134.2196 -0.2346
130.8675 131.0904 0.2229
129.9194 131.0426 1.1232
154.0157 153.3488 -0.6669
137.1045 135.5736 -1.5309
140.1045 141.3966 1.2921
145.7609 145.478 -0.2829
133.9549 133.9612 0.0063
145.9549 147.3966 1.4417
140.2691 137.6072 -2.6619
136.1059 137.3152 1.2093
126.1933 127.186 0.9927
135.4453 135.0904 -0.3549
146.2097 146.3966 0.1869
137.4126 138.009 0.5964
134.6823 137.3966 2.7143
139.9815 139.3152 -0.6663
144.3668 144.9134 0.5466
139.6127 140.2196 0.6069
139.4275 138.832 -0.5955
145.3504 146.1382 0.7878
130.9549 131.5258 0.5709
140.5178 140.009 -0.5088
141.9638 141.5258 -0.438
138.8689 138.4444 -0.4245
137.946 139.5258 1.5798
124.2985 126.4444 2.1459
147.4201 148.7842 1.3641
137.9993 138.7028 0.7035
138.7711 139.186 0.4149
140.9549 139.2674 -1.6875
132.86 134.009 1.149
143.9993 144.1382 0.1389
144.2438 143.9612 -0.2826
142.5075 142.5258 0.0183
135.026 135.9612 0.9352
143.9446 143.3488 -0.5958
138.1031 137.2196 -0.8835
136.1933 138.3152 2.1219
140.5341 141.009 0.4749
143.3238 143.0904 -0.2334
140.5683 139.9134 -0.6549
130.2971 131.9612 1.6641
132.8941 133.5736 0.6795
139.3934 139.7028 0.3094
136.7712 136.9612 0.19
150.4631 149.7842 -0.6789
148.8483 147.7842 -1.0641
136.7001 137.655 0.9549

average 0.194102326

so you take 0.2 more damage (this is over 230 swings of 1 dmg, where 20% of attacks were tech) using the pvp relic... but whats weird is you can see that the pvp relic fared better some of the times (all negative 3rd column values)

this is assuming:
def def proc shield absorb abs proc shd pvp abs pvp def pvp def pvp proc
0.2099 0.2626 0.4153 0.5526 0.6489 0.4302 0.5646 0.2086 0.2617

so... i took a design of experiment class once so i did a two sample t test with one tail alternative hypothesis at 75% confidence: (c1 is both and c2 is def+pvp)

Two-Sample T-Test and CI: C1, C2

Two-sample T for C1 vs C2

N Mean StDev SE Mean
C1 86 138.76 5.70 0.61
C2 86 138.95 5.62 0.61


Difference = mu (C1) - mu (C2)
Estimate for difference: -0.194
75% upper bound for difference: 0.389
T-Test of difference = 0 (vs <): T-Value = -0.22 P-Value = 0.411 DF = 169



...so they are almost identical, with a slight advantage to using both proc relics... but not statistically significant.

AlixMV's Avatar


AlixMV
08.08.2013 , 04:42 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
It's been stated a few times in a number of other threads: the BiS for all tanks at the moment is def proc and abs proc. You can swap out the Shield/Abs use relic for specific fights with high tank downtime but that's conditional and only a marginal improvement so you can get away with no doing so.
Okay, n00b question (just a longtime lurker)--are you saying to swap out both proc relics for a Shield and the Absorb use relics? Or if only swapping out one relic for a Shield or Absorb use relic, which of the proc ones would you replace? Replacing Absorb proc for an Absorb use makes more sense, but I'm not as into the backend to validate that inclination.

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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
08.08.2013 , 05:03 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by AlixMV View Post
Okay, n00b question (just a longtime lurker)--are you saying to swap out both proc relics for a Shield and the Absorb use relics? Or if only swapping out one relic for a Shield or Absorb use relic, which of the proc ones would you replace?
You'll want to swap out only one of them; specifically, the Absorb proc relic (it has Power as its passive stat rather than Defense). You never want to use 2 use relics of the same stat because using either of them will place the other on the 2 minute CD. Even if you're using 2 use relics of different type (such as one Def and one Shield/Abs), using one will put the other one on CD, albeit a shorter CD (1 minute).
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AlixMV's Avatar


AlixMV
08.16.2013 , 04:46 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
You'll want to swap out only one of them; specifically, the Absorb proc relic (it has Power as its passive stat rather than Defense). You never want to use 2 use relics of the same stat because using either of them will place the other on the 2 minute CD. Even if you're using 2 use relics of different type (such as one Def and one Shield/Abs), using one will put the other one on CD, albeit a shorter CD (1 minute).
Thanks for the confirmation!
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leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
08.16.2013 , 05:18 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
yeah. i guess they are just broken for pvp... still sadlol
New 2.4 Tank PVP Relics, Obroan Tier

Fortunate Redoubt - 625 def proc, 20s (+21 static def)
Shield Amplification - 625 abs proc, 20s
Ephemeral Mending - 782 heal proc, 20s

*New* Reactive Warding: Incoming attacks have a 30% chance to grant an absorb shield that protects the user from 1360 damage for 6s. This effect can only occur every 40s

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
08.18.2013 , 12:18 AM | #119
that comes out to 32 ish hps, which is above the healies, assuming 23 and 43 sec proc int.

Yngow's Avatar


Yngow
08.18.2013 , 10:43 AM | #120
That new relic is very interesting, I wonder if we're seeing those new relics in pve versions. When the DR start getting too high I can see that relic being a very good choice, also the fact that it works for any damage and unlike the healing relic this one will never "overheal". It would be really awesome to see an on-use version of it too
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