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Beyond Good and Evil


greyjedibp's Avatar


greyjedibp
06.09.2013 , 06:00 AM | #31
Read all your chaper I U got me hook in this story

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
06.09.2013 , 11:27 PM | #32
Open question: what do you guys think of the notes posts? Do you read them, not read them, think they're pointless, think they're patronizing, think they're helpful, think they're funny...?

Because a significant chunk of the reasoning behind them is to inform the readers, of course. But there's also another angle. I'm kind of treating this like an academic history paper in that I want to cite my sources. If I get an idea or a quote or the general tenor of a scene from someplace else, I feel compelled to give notice of that.
Quote: Originally Posted by Adwynyth View Post
I give you an official SQUEE!

More! More! *pops more popcorn*
A squee, eh? Thank you very much.
Quote: Originally Posted by greyjedibp View Post
Read all your chaper I U got me hook in this story
Awesome! I'm glad it did. Lemme know what you think of the other chapters.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
06.10.2013 , 12:34 AM | #33
Diapason

“The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that’s the essence of inhumanity.”
-Anthony Anderson, The Devil’s Disciple, II

Spoiler
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
06.10.2013 , 12:36 AM | #34
Notes to Chapter VIII
Spoiler
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

Adwynyth's Avatar


Adwynyth
06.10.2013 , 01:15 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Open question: what do you guys think of the notes posts? Do you read them, not read them, think they're pointless, think they're patronizing, think they're helpful, think they're funny...?
Keep it up! I love all the references, and since you're obviously more well-read than I am, I appreciate the chance to get some perspective and context, as well as add a few things to my already-oversized "to read" list.

Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
A squee, eh? Thank you very much.
A squee indeed. I shall surely squee more later, given some of what is being setup.

Louisiana girl, eh? Shrimp? Now you've got me craving Cajun food. At frelling midnight! >.<
Horrendously bad fan fiction: Sith in a Pretty Dress

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
06.10.2013 , 01:55 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Adwynyth View Post
Keep it up! I love all the references, and since you're obviously more well-read than I am, I appreciate the chance to get some perspective and context, as well as add a few things to my already-oversized "to read" list.


A squee indeed. I shall surely squee more later, given some of what is being setup.

Louisiana girl, eh? Shrimp? Now you've got me craving Cajun food. At frelling midnight! >.<
Glad to hear it. I get anxious about silly stuff like that. It's what makes Jaesa so easy to write.

And f'true, dawlin', I usedta stay by my mamma'n'em in St. Tammany Parish. You know how when a good ole boy moves up North he sometimes gets hisself a different accent, but when he gets ta drinkin', that Southern drawl (or twang) comes out? Well, for me, it's more like a weird mixture between German (where I was born) and Yat (from my childhood). This is why I am almost always the DD - people don't understand me if I start drinking.

Oh, and it's pronounced "s'rimp". No "sh".
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

NgeneR's Avatar


NgeneR
06.10.2013 , 09:44 AM | #37
I'm enjoying this, as I did Sith in a Pretty Dress and some of the other fan fiction. First time actually commenting, and the comment has nothing to do with the writing (which is better than mine and I teach the blasted stuff).

I find the different views of the characters interesting. I've seen Jaesa portrayed as nobility from Alderaan (no idea how that happened; her parents are clearly servants), and Jaesa as crazy, and your view (Jaesa as strong). My own view of Jaesa is quite a bit different. Strong, yes, but insecure. I kept thinking about growing up as a servant to those nobles on Alderaan, most of whom are the worst kind of aristocrat, and how a talent like Jaesa's would be useful to someone who needed protection, who was constantly afraid, not officially a slave, but little better than one.

I also have a problem with Sith as so totally evil. I keep thinking that these people have been in charge of an empire for how many years? Sheer self interest would keep them, for the most part, from abusing their power, and I cannot imagine that a society with their entire family life based around murder and abuse would survive for long. I know the Lucas viewpoint, but I don't buy it. Too simplistic, and not very interesting.

Anyway, love what you're doing with Jaesa and I'm looking forward to more.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
06.10.2013 , 01:28 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by NgeneR View Post
I'm enjoying this, as I did Sith in a Pretty Dress and some of the other fan fiction. First time actually commenting, and the comment has nothing to do with the writing (which is better than mine and I teach the blasted stuff).

I find the different views of the characters interesting. I've seen Jaesa portrayed as nobility from Alderaan (no idea how that happened; her parents are clearly servants), and Jaesa as crazy, and your view (Jaesa as strong). My own view of Jaesa is quite a bit different. Strong, yes, but insecure. I kept thinking about growing up as a servant to those nobles on Alderaan, most of whom are the worst kind of aristocrat, and how a talent like Jaesa's would be useful to someone who needed protection, who was constantly afraid, not officially a slave, but little better than one.

I also have a problem with Sith as so totally evil. I keep thinking that these people have been in charge of an empire for how many years? Sheer self interest would keep them, for the most part, from abusing their power, and I cannot imagine that a society with their entire family life based around murder and abuse would survive for long. I know the Lucas viewpoint, but I don't buy it. Too simplistic, and not very interesting.

Anyway, love what you're doing with Jaesa and I'm looking forward to more.
Wow. Thanks.

I tend to agree with you about Jaesa's insecurity, to be honest - and I think that if it's not showing through in my writing I must be doing something wrong. For me, though, it's more a question of Jaesa's will than her belief in her own power. The game shows Jaesa as being unsure about the extent of her powers, believing that she can be 'tricked', and so on. That doesn't make any sense to me, because the very nature of her power is basically the ability to know someone as closely and fully as anyone possibly could. There isn't really room for uncertainty there.

Where I did try to make the insecurity come through is in combat, the morality of whether she should use her power at all, her mental fitness for the task of reforming the Empire from within, and, now, her relationship with Aly. I mean, from one point of view Jaesa's done very strong things, like switching sides, and being there for Aly when they talked about her past. But she also constantly rolls those things around in her head and if, not rethinks, at least doubts her decisions. For instance, in that fight back at the safehouse, she only killed one guy, after all, and that after the sort of internal dialogue that would have normally gotten herself killed instead.

As far as the evil Sith go, meh. So far we've only really seen a few of them, and of those, only Baras has had anything close to extended dialogue. Most of the creepy pure evil stuff that I've written for him is straight out of the game's dialogue itself. And as far as Ricimer went...well. The social relationships I brought up for the Sith Empire pretty much mirror the legal authority that heads of households have had in families around the world, from Kongzi and the Roman paterfamilias through the early twentieth century. States have historically given tacit license to their soldiers and their authority figures to rape, and sometimes, as in the case of Japan's "comfort women", this was institutionalized. This is really just the combination of those two ideas. I don't really think self-interest woud've been a deterrent at all, because most of the time, the victims just stayed (and stay) victims, which meant that there wasn't really any sort of cost (in the economic sense) to the perpetrator. After all, if you look at the history of power, more often than not you can call it a history of the abuse of power.

Now, I do want to point out that Aly's not exactly a rational, unbiased observer on this point. By her own admission, she saw the entire Empire as collaborating with her father (like when she was out in the jungle) when in reality she was probably exaggerating somewhat. But it was the Empire's social hierarchy that enabled that kind of behavior from a Sith Lord, and even if not every Sith who interacted with Ricimer engaged in his little prostitution ring or actively approved of what he was doing, they tacitly did. There's a point in there about the banality of evil, I think, and it's not exactly far-fetched to see parallels in RL human society. I'd argue that the Sith as portrayed in both the game and this particular story aren't really more evil than most human societies throughout history; they're just more ostentatious about it than most. (And not really more ostentatious about it than, say, the Nazis.) And if human society managed to avoid self-destruction over the course of the last several thousand years, well, it's not so unreasonable to think that the Sith could, too.

For what it's worth, the next chapter will make things seem...a bit more balanced in terms of "evil". I guarantee it.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

NgeneR's Avatar


NgeneR
06.10.2013 , 02:13 PM | #39
I'll agree with you about the patriarchy. The potential for abuse, institutionalized abuse, is there, but in most societies, that potential is subsumed in the need to nurture the next generation. But the Sith society seems contradictory in the game. At least, the Sith rulers have as many very powerful women as men, although it seems most of the Dark Council consists of men. I have to admit, I spend a lot of my time trying to reconcile the back story as I see it with the game itself, not very successfully at times. It's one reason I read the fan fiction, and one reason I write my own (not for publication--I write for my own pleasure). To me, the Jedi seem just as patriarchal, just as willing to impose their philosophy on others. The simplistic conflict between good and evil makes a good parable, but not a good story, at least by my standards. Character makes story, and that's why your writing works.

The insecurity part--I actually see Jaesa's insecurity in your story, but it's a different insecurity than what I see in her. (Which is what makes a lot of this so much fun--seeing how other people view their characters.) I don't want to influence your view of Jaesa, so I'll just say that as a servant and the child of servants, Jaesa was a dependent, unable to make her own choices, unable to protect herself, with parents who were also unable to protect her. I didn't see the general on Alderaan as her mentor but as her master (ok, mistress), and I saw Jaesa's ability to "read" others as a way of finding out what they think so she could protect herself from what they could do to her. She was, until Nomen Karr found her, essentially powerless, and Nomen Karr preferred her to stay that way, under his control.

Anyway, keep it up.

Adwynyth's Avatar


Adwynyth
06.11.2013 , 02:41 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
And f'true, dawlin', I usedta stay by my mamma'n'em in St. Tammany Parish. You know how when a good ole boy moves up North he sometimes gets hisself a different accent, but when he gets ta drinkin', that Southern drawl (or twang) comes out? Well, for me, it's more like a weird mixture between German (where I was born) and Yat (from my childhood). This is why I am almost always the DD - people don't understand me if I start drinking.
So you're saying I have to get you drunk if I want to hear that accent?

Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Oh, and it's pronounced "s'rimp". No "sh".
Ah, thankee. If you need to know how anything in Arizona is properly pronounced (most likely Spanish-derived stuff), I'll happily reciprocate.
Horrendously bad fan fiction: Sith in a Pretty Dress