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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Heat-Wave's Avatar


Heat-Wave
07.05.2014 , 12:04 PM | #5231
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Did you acknowledge and confirm that you knew the choice of vanguard was permanent and that you were certain that vanguard was the choice you wanted to make when you chose vanguard for that character? I would bet that you did, since the game requires you to confirm that.

Now here you are asking that BW change the game and allow you to change that vanguard into a commando.

As I said, I am not the one who wants BW to change the game.
Oh boy you need to go outside and get out more. This is a game, not real life. That whole, "permanent" thing is just a RP story thing that doesn't make real world sense anyway, people change careers in real life you know.

Games are supposed to be fun, you just want to be the grinch in the room who breaks the toy so no one can play with it.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
07.22.2014 , 09:03 AM | #5232
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about asking for a class change.
I would, but as I'm not asking for a Class change, I'm asking for the consideration of an Advanced Class swap feature to be implemented, I won't have to

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
As I have said many times, I will continue to accept the devs stance on this as indicated by the previously posted quotes, which are the last word from the devs on AC as it relates to class.
The last word made, for the most part, by Devs that no longer work on SWTOR and from the pre-launch/ immediate post-launch period of the game. Here we are nearly three years later where many of the original design intentions have been altered.

As to what the current Devs consider to be Class, I take it from all the references from the holonet and character creation panel where they are pretty clear it is more than 'just' story. The fact that many seasoned players choose to play through without selecting an Advanced Class as a challenge shows the parent Class is viable, although I'm not sure you'd want them in your NiM Ops group

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
07.22.2014 , 09:20 AM | #5233
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
The last word made, for the most part, by Devs that no longer work on SWTOR and from the pre-launch/ immediate post-launch period of the game. Here we are nearly three years later where many of the original design intentions have been altered.
Thankfully, the original design intent that now single character could fill all three roles has NOT been changed. Thankfully, a player's choice of class (AC) being PERMANENT has NOT been changed.

Hopefully, it will stay that way.

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
07.22.2014 , 09:27 AM | #5234
I honestly think if it were something they were going to do it would have been done by now (with the CM).

sethdil's Avatar


sethdil
07.22.2014 , 09:37 AM | #5235
AC changing is a horrible idea.

First this is unnecessary, most ACs have multiple roles. As a Jedi Knight I can DPS effectively enough with the proper gear and a little know how on my DPS rotation. I can Tank effectively with the proper gear and a little know how on my tanking rotation. My sage can DPS or heal. My trooper can Heal or DPS

Second this option is perplexing, give me just ONE VALID justification for changing your advance class. And please done use the "But I wanna do it all, I want my trooper to be able to tank, dps and heal" because I will just call you out as a n00b who cant play his/her class effectively.

Third in doing a advanced class swap diminishes the entire reason for advanced class. Why not just remove advanced class completely and allow players to choose any power from any tree and design their own advanced class.

Savej's Avatar


Savej
07.22.2014 , 09:37 AM | #5236
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Thankfully, the original design intent that now single character could fill all three roles has NOT been changed. Thankfully, a player's choice of class (AC) being PERMANENT has NOT been changed.

Hopefully, it will stay that way.
except the designers originally intended to allow ac swapping (you've seen the youtube) so what's your point? I think it's just that you're happy players have limited options with their characters. I know why BW likes that - they are gambling that players will spend time leveling alts (as opposed to doing endgame things with their guilds/friends on their 55s). Why do you care, tho?

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
07.22.2014 , 09:56 AM | #5237
Quote: Originally Posted by sethdil View Post
AC changing is a horrible idea.

First this is unnecessary, most ACs have multiple roles. As a Jedi Knight I can DPS effectively enough with the proper gear and a little know how on my DPS rotation. I can Tank effectively with the proper gear and a little know how on my tanking rotation. My sage can DPS or heal. My trooper can Heal or DPS

Second this option is perplexing, give me just ONE VALID justification for changing your advance class. And please done use the "But I wanna do it all, I want my trooper to be able to tank, dps and heal" because I will just call you out as a n00b who cant play his/her class effectively.

Third in doing a advanced class swap diminishes the entire reason for advanced class. Why not just remove advanced class completely and allow players to choose any power from any tree and design their own advanced class.
1) Many things are "unnecessary" - I see it as something some players may want to use, others, like yourself, won't. Similar to the design kiosk where I can change my hair color and bone structure (which were also permanent at one time)

2) To keep me playing (me is figurative, not literal). Breathing new life into a character role that may have become stale or boring to me. MMO's are long term investments of time - allowing people to freshen things up can only enhance retention. Also, an MMO is a fluid game...ever changing and ever altering. Allowing players the freedom to flow with design is a good feature, not negative.

3) Since every Class already shares an entire tree per AC, I would have no issue at all with this...however, I also see the potential for Bioware to sell AC change on the CM, making AC choices financially beneficial to them...so I'd expect AC's to stay.

Lemme ask you...what does it matter to you if I do my thing with a Commando or a Vanguard? How does MY choice of AC impact you at all? If you're against AC swap, are you also against alts? I mean, I'd have all the same disadvantages if I simply swapped characters vs. AC...right? Whether I log on to another toon, or swap my AC, the impact is exactly the same.
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Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
07.22.2014 , 10:02 AM | #5238
Quote: Originally Posted by sethdil View Post
AC changing is a horrible idea.
An AC swap feature is an idea, the exact amount of 'horrible' is subjective and variable depending on how such a feature was to be implemented.
Quote: Originally Posted by sethdil View Post
First this is unnecessary, most ACs have multiple roles. As a Jedi Knight I can DPS effectively enough with the proper gear and a little know how on my DPS rotation. I can Tank effectively with the proper gear and a little know how on my tanking rotation. My sage can DPS or heal. My trooper can Heal or DPS
The fact that the Advanced Classes each have three further specialisations that define the role weakens the argument for not allowing an AC swap feature, not strengthen it. Within the scope of raw mechanics, an AC is little more than an additional stage of specialisation, not a unique 'class'.
Quote: Originally Posted by sethdil View Post
Second this option is perplexing, give me just ONE VALID justification for changing your advance class. And please done use the "But I wanna do it all, I want my trooper to be able to tank, dps and heal" because I will just call you out as a n00b who cant play his/her class effectively.
You have to understand that an AC swap doesn't allow you character to tank, dps and heal at the same time. You still have a segregation of core tanking/healing abilities.
  1. Allowing an AC swap feature allows players to resurrect old characters they don't play anymore, maybe because having levelled the alternative AC on the other faction they find that playstyle suits them more (eg. levelling a Powertech and then a Commando and finding the Commando playstyle suits them far more)
  2. Allowing a player to fill a gap within their guild without having to step back to level 1.
  3. Allowing a player a little more control over their character. This is a more personal, role-playing aspect but I've always thought of my Bounty Hunter as a Bodyguard, not just a hired thug, having the ability to choose between a healer role OR a tanking role makes far more sense for him.
  4. Allowing a player to experience the full rotation of an Advanced Class and how they play at endgame before making a choice of what they will stick with without having to go back to level 1.
Quote: Originally Posted by sethdil View Post
Third in doing a advanced class swap diminishes the entire reason for advanced class. Why not just remove advanced class completely and allow players to choose any power from any tree and design their own advanced class.
It doesn't diminish it. If anything it enhances it.
You have to understand that the Advanced Class stage of specialisation primarily exists to make sure no single character can Tank, DPS and Heal at the SAME time. By locking the core tanking and healing abilities away from each other on the AC branch you accomplish this.
At the same time, you don't want to allow free form ability choice as it generally result in very specific 'cookie cutter' builds that over optimises synergy between abilities (and when I say that I mean 'Breaks' them )
While I'm not a fan of Class based systems that restricts the full range of abilities to a player it is a workable compromise that allows designers to segregate certain pools of abilities and design content around it (the dreaded Trinity of MMOs)

Orizuru's Avatar


Orizuru
07.22.2014 , 10:05 AM | #5239
I think an AC change would be a cool feature for many players, but I think it would create a slew of new problems and complaints from a portion of the player-base.

Can you imagine the tears that will flow when a Jugg changes to a Mara without giving the change the proper consideration to realize that they will no longer be able to use any of their heavy armor sets that aren't adaptive armor? Even in the cases where they have full sets of adaptive armor there would be some who come to the forums and complain because they want to revert the AC change because they didn't think it through completely enough and no longer have the right gear or mods to support their new AC the way they wanted.

I just think it's a can of worms that should be opened very very carefully, if at all.

sethdil's Avatar


sethdil
07.22.2014 , 10:17 AM | #5240
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
1)
Lemme ask you...what does it matter to you if I do my thing with a Commando or a Vanguard? How does MY choice of AC impact you at all? If you're against AC swap, are you also against alts? I mean, I'd have all the same disadvantages if I simply swapped characters vs. AC...right? Whether I log on to another toon, or swap my AC, the impact is exactly the same.
Here in lay the problem in allowing you to reClass on the fly your commando can reClass to vanguard and thus could makes a pure melee class like the Jedi for ops less favorable since you have both range and melee attacks. I will not support any change that diminishes the role of one class over another unless the affected class is also rebalanced to minimize the impact on their enjoyment as well.

Your argument seems to be "I wanna do it all" to which I will say then level another character. Advanced classes was created as a method to diversity group dynamic it has worked since the game launched just fine. Groups are dependent on each member to preform a specific role.

I guess its the old school MMO skilled gameplay where each player needed the other to succeed vs the newer "I need a non specific class so I can play effectively" mentality. To each their own form of gameplay I guess so peace out!!