Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.21.2014 , 04:11 PM | #5031
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
When you create your character you are asked to select a Class.
When you go to a Class trainer to level up abilities they list Class and Advanced Class on separate tabs.
When you unlock companions in game it is by Class.
When you unlock heroic moment buff it is by Class.
When you unlock the Class Buff it is by Class.
When you want to show off with legacy unlock emotes it is by Class.

It depends what their level is, those lower guildies are listed by their Class, those higher than 10+ are listed by their Advanced Class.

I'm not in any guilds at the moment so that would be kind of hard

I KNEW you wouldn't take the dare. Thank you for proving me right.

Since you want to use the excuse that you are not in any guilds at the moment, how about a screen shot of a "/who" in fleet sorted by CLASS?

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.21.2014 , 04:38 PM | #5033
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
I think both of you proved your point. I also think both of you are being a bit silly.
Oh, I think the old 'Ratajack vs Vhaegrant' roundabout of semantics has long since left the land of silly and entered the realm of tragedy

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.21.2014 , 04:44 PM | #5034
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Oh, I think the old 'Ratajack vs Vhaegrant' roundabout of semantics has long since left the land of silly and entered the realm of tragedy
I'm still waiting for that screen shot. I expect that I will be waiting for a long time for such a screen shot since it seems that none of those posters who want to see class changes implemented have the stones to actually post a screen shot of a /who in fleet sorted by CLASS.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.21.2014 , 04:47 PM | #5035
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Oh, I think the old 'Ratajack vs Vhaegrant' roundabout of semantics has long since left the land of silly and entered the realm of tragedy
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
I'm still waiting for that screen shot. I expect that I will be waiting for a long time for such a screen shot since it seems that none of those posters who want to see class changes implemented have the stones to actually post a screen shot of a /who in fleet sorted by CLASS.
Actually I would rather see you two have the "stones" to stop being petty. You guys both know what that screen shot will look like, and I think no one is disputing how it would look. At least not that I have seen, though I might have missed it.

Posting a shot of it proves nothing beyond both of your substantiated points which I think both of you have successfully proven IMO. Unfortunately, that means neither side "wins" the argument.

In other words Ratajack, we might have proven our case from one point of view, but they have just as many points to make that have validity. And I think you know that.

That doesn't mean the overall view that AC is NOT a class is correct IMO, but I think it is a rather personal view, since evidence exists that it is....and it isn't.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.21.2014 , 04:54 PM | #5036
Look, to be even clearer, here is the problem as I see it.

We have evidence that supports the idea that AC is a class. We have dev statements, official releases, links, etc. We ALSO have the very same thing that supports the idea that it is NOT a class from the same sources, even the exact same people in some cases. All the proof has been posted in this thread.

So it comes down to personal interpretation IMO.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.21.2014 , 05:10 PM | #5037
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Look, to be even clearer, here is the problem as I see it.

We have evidence that supports the idea that AC is a class. We have dev statements, official releases, links, etc. We ALSO have the very same thing that supports the idea that it is NOT a class from the same sources, even the exact same people in some cases. All the proof has been posted in this thread.

So it comes down to personal interpretation IMO.
I mentioned this before, and I think it's worth giving it another go: This game has "Base Classes" and it has "Advanced Classes"

The unmodified word "Class" doesn't really apply here. Some things in this game only apply to Base Classes (e.g. Story Missions, Legacy Presence Bonus, Herioc Moment CD, Legacy Class Buff), and yet, other things in this game apply only to Advanced Classes (e.g. Healing and Tank roles)

The argument about what is or isn't a class will go on forever, until one notices that there isn't such a thing as a "Class" in TOR. There is only "Base Classes" and "Advanced Classes".

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.21.2014 , 05:11 PM | #5038
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
I'm still waiting for that screen shot. I expect that I will be waiting for a long time for such a screen shot since it seems that none of those posters who want to see class changes implemented have the stones to actually post a screen shot of a /who in fleet sorted by CLASS.
You'll be waiting for a very very long time as I've never posted any pictures over the internet. Call me a technophobe in that regards.

The trouble I have with your argument is that is the only point of reference you have within SWTOR and it is largely based on a level of redundancy to save column space on the Social panel. They could have probably have had a Class column and an Advanced Class column.

All your other references in support of your argument come from outdated quotes (And when I say outdated I don't just mean old, I mean made by people who are no longer working on the game, at a time the game was in development flux and before a more recent (albeit still old quote) by a current dev) and largely supported by how another game defines class (your constant referenceing to World of Warcraft).

I get you are not in favour of allowing an AC swapping feature. But, would it be beyond the realms of possibility for you to use the terms SWTOR actually uses everywhere else in its documentation?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.21.2014 , 05:16 PM | #5039
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
...You guys both know what that screen shot will look like, and I think no one is disputing how it would look. At least not that I have seen, though I might have missed it.

Posting a shot of it proves nothing beyond both of your substantiated points which I think both of you have successfully proven IMO. Unfortunately, that means neither side "wins" the argument.

In other words Ratajack, we might have proven our case from one point of view, but they have just as many points to make that have validity. And I think you know that.

That doesn't mean the overall view that AC is NOT a class is correct IMO, but I think it is a rather personal view, since evidence exists that it is....and it isn't.

Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Look, to be even clearer, here is the problem as I see it.

We have evidence that supports the idea that AC is a class. We have dev statements, official releases, links, etc. We ALSO have the very same thing that supports the idea that it is NOT a class from the same sources, even the exact same people in some cases. All the proof has been posted in this thread.

So it comes down to personal interpretation IMO.
Highlighting mine.

I highlighted what is, IMO, the most important part.

I agree with you, Lord, that BW has not been as clear as they could have been with regards to AC's being different classes.

Short of actually having a dev pop in and clarify whether or not your AC is your class, there will be always room for "interpretation" (the ability to ignore anything which does not support whichever side you happen to support). IMO, even if a dev were to pop in and make a definitive statement one way or the other (for example, that your AC IS your class), we would likely still have some who would find a reason to dismiss that statement (that it was made by someone other than the current lead designer, for example).

Like you, I would like very much to see a gold post clarifying whether or not AC's are separate classes, or merely specs, as well as whether or not AC changes are even still on the wall of crazy. Given their staunch silence on this topic since that statement from over a year and half ago, though, I do not think that we will be seeing any such statement any time soon.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.21.2014 , 05:17 PM | #5040
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
You'll be waiting for a very very long time as I've never posted any pictures over the internet. Call me a technophobe in that regards.

The trouble I have with your argument is that is the only point of reference you have within SWTOR and it is largely based on a level of redundancy to save column space on the Social panel. They could have probably have had a Class column and an Advanced Class column.

All your other references in support of your argument come from outdated quotes (And when I say outdated I don't just mean old, I mean made by people who are no longer working on the game, at a time the game was in development flux and before a more recent (albeit still old quote) by a current dev) and largely supported by how another game defines class (your constant referenceing to World of Warcraft).

I get you are not in favour of allowing an AC swapping feature. But, would it be beyond the realms of possibility for you to use the terms SWTOR actually uses everywhere else in its documentation?
Would it not stand to reason that plenty of evidence has been posted, other than single dev comments, to support the idea of ACs being a fully fledged class?

Note, that does not mean evidence does not exist to the contrary. But I think it is important for each side to see that evidence has been posted to support BOTH views.