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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Superman_AZ's Avatar


Superman_AZ
05.09.2014 , 12:57 PM | #4721
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
I think the only people that should be quoting figures about SWTOR are those with the metrics to hand. After all we can all make up numbers to back up an argument.

I don't think it's a make or break feature. I can quite happily get through the game without it. In fact there are many other features that should take priority over AC swap.
But, if it was introduced in a way I could make use of it it would greatly enrich my connection with my characters (I would want a one shot cost per character that allows me to switch between ACs in much the same way as a respec). I appreciate that's a little too far for most and would have no issue if the feature was just rolled out as a consumable that allowed a oneshot AC swap, and this step would appeal more to the many posters on this thread and other similar ones that just want a simple way of breathing life back into an abandoned character.

Where I would draw the line is if it was taken to a class or faction swap. Given the ingrained story based nature of the game this feels wrong (not to mention the hard technical issues of tracking the players choices). Or, allowing a character access to the abilities of both Advanced Classes at the same time.
Use any number you like. If you want, we can open all 47 threads, and take a head count of the pro-swappers. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying 100k players of the 2M in the game would use this, that is still only 1/2 of 1% of the total players. Why would BW want to implement something that is not being demanded by 1M+ people? Like I said, if they thought it was a good idea, they would have already implemented it.
"Be yourself, no one can ever tell you you're doing it wrong." ~ James Leo Herlihy

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.09.2014 , 01:27 PM | #4722
Quote: Originally Posted by Superman_AZ View Post
Use any number you like. If you want, we can open all 47 threads, and take a head count of the pro-swappers. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying 100k players of the 2M in the game would use this, that is still only 1/2 of 1% of the total players. Why would BW want to implement something that is not being demanded by 1M+ people? Like I said, if they thought it was a good idea, they would have already implemented it.
Again, only Bioware have the metrics and any real idea of how they would implement an AC swap feature. The fact that they've given it serious consideration suggests that they've had enough feedback from the player-base as a whole, and seen other MMOs that allow more freeform ability choice/ role selection. Honestly, if they thought it was a bad idea they would never have considered it in the first place.

Superman_AZ's Avatar


Superman_AZ
05.09.2014 , 01:29 PM | #4723
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Again, only Bioware have the metrics and any real idea of how they would implement an AC swap feature. The fact that they've given it serious consideration suggests that they've had enough feedback from the player-base as a whole, and seen other MMOs that allow more freeform ability choice/ role selection. Honestly, if they thought it was a bad idea they would never have considered it in the first place.
Would love to see links to proof of the "serious consideration". There is not even a yellow response in almost 240 pages. I've not seen it but I would gather it is 8 seconds of Eric M saying, "Yeah, we've considered it. Maybe in the future." and then not another word about it. But if you would like to point me in the direction of the "serious consideration", I would be "seriously" happy to look over it. In the meantime, I'll just get on with my day.
"Be yourself, no one can ever tell you you're doing it wrong." ~ James Leo Herlihy

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.09.2014 , 01:43 PM | #4724
Quote: Originally Posted by Superman_AZ View Post
Would love to see links to proof of the "serious consideration". There is not even a yellow response in almost 240 pages. I've not seen it but I would gather it is 8 seconds of Eric M saying, "Yeah, we've considered it. Maybe in the future." and then not another word about it. But if you would like to point me in the direction of the "serious consideration", I would be "seriously" happy to look over it. In the meantime, I'll just get on with my day.
Here you go, 'cause I know it's too much effort for you to go back to the OP to actually read the comment that this thread has built itself up from. It's by the current lead designer Damion Schubert, who has probably got his plate more than full with the development of GSF, Galactic Strongholds and the potential for a level expansion to 60 towards the end of the new story arc. But if anyone is in a position to know what 'serious talks' are in SWTOR I guess he'd be the guy

Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by Dulfy and Damion Schubert

18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option Ė I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isnít on the horizon anytime soon.

Superman_AZ's Avatar


Superman_AZ
05.09.2014 , 02:31 PM | #4725
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
But if anyone is in a position to know what 'serious talks' are in SWTOR I guess he'd be the guy
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/
Nov 16, 2012

So, let me get this straight. A 237 page thread, and "lots of people wanting this option", is all built on an 18 month old interview OUTSIDE of the SWTOR site? Really? This is the compelling evidence that makes Advanced Class swapping a sure thing in the SWTOR game environment?

An 18 month old interview, and no mention before, or after, and no comment in this thread for 237 pages by Eric or any other member of his team.

Excuse me for just a moment.
"Be yourself, no one can ever tell you you're doing it wrong." ~ James Leo Herlihy

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.09.2014 , 03:02 PM | #4726
Quote: Originally Posted by Superman_AZ View Post
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/
Nov 16, 2012

So, let me get this straight. A 237 page thread, and "lots of people wanting this option", is all built on an 18 month old interview OUTSIDE of the SWTOR site? Really? This is the compelling evidence that makes Advanced Class swapping a sure thing in the SWTOR game environment?

An 18 month old interview, and no mention before, or after, and no comment in this thread for 237 pages by Eric or any other member of his team.

Excuse me for just a moment.
If that's your opinion on the matter I can't help but wonder why you have felt compelled to argue the point with me. Is it just the need to belittle the opinions of those who don't hold your view? Really, if you weren't that bothered wouldn't it have been far easier just to say 'Not going to happen, ever.' and move on?

Eric Musco is the community manager and I feel he does an amazing job considering the levels of abuse such positions tend to have hurled at them by the ravening hordes of fans.

The importance of the quote is because it was made by Damion Schubert, the Lead Designer. Someone who has intimate knowledge of the behind the scene development of the game and an actual say in how features are implemented.

The ambiguity of the time required to deliver one aspect mentioned in the quote while not delivering the other does not imply it has been abandoned completely.

The lack of response is not surprising considering the Devs rarely pass comment on issues they have commented on in the past. Named Devs only tend to post when commenting about features that are in the immediate future such as the roadmap posts, or PTS patches.

Superman_AZ's Avatar


Superman_AZ
05.09.2014 , 03:27 PM | #4727
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
If that's your opinion on the matter I can't help but wonder why you have felt compelled to argue the point with me. Is it just the need to belittle the opinions of those who don't hold your view? Really, if you weren't that bothered wouldn't it have been far easier just to say 'Not going to happen, ever.' and move on?
I did say that, and then people wanted to argue that it WOULD. So, I indulged in the discussion, only to find out people are clinging to this notion like a passenger to a Titanic life-raft, only to find out the last (and ONLY) word on it was 18 months ago, and was not even made here on this site. I am all for discussing a possible feature, but when you fight tooth and nail to argue a standpoint that pretty much DIED 18 months ago, I have to wonder why you don't just get out more. Fighting for something mentioned several times, or even recently (a month or so ago) is one thing, but at this point it's really just kinda sad.
"Be yourself, no one can ever tell you you're doing it wrong." ~ James Leo Herlihy

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.09.2014 , 03:42 PM | #4728
Errr....comments made by devs that were likely terminated for almost running the game into the ground are used as proof on the anti AC change side. Not a good idea to throw stones.

I think using any dev comment from more than a year ago is foolish, pro and con....which means there are no dev comments. The most recent comment, one and a half years ago from an actual new staff dev indicated he "believed" or "expected" (cant remember which) this would happen eventually. Sounds more like an opinion than confirmation.

As does the confused comments from the prior dev staff...frankly it seemed they couldnt figure out HOW they felt about the issue....especially DE, who contradicted himself on a number of occasions with respect to this subject.

All of the statements against come from devs that are no longer with the company, and most if not all of them said things that are no longer true in any sense of the word.

So both are suspect IMO.

I think its ok to express your support or lack thereof of AC change. I think it's a bit silly, however, to argue and use flimsy comments from the past on both sides of the fence to support that argument.

Nothing supports either side. It is complete conjecture, period.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.09.2014 , 03:43 PM | #4729
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
The Devs aren't given to reiterating previous answers they have given. Or else they'd never escape the clutches of the forums. The last official statement of their position on AC swapping is well documented in this thread.


The answer remains what it has been from the last statement. Probably in the future. The only way it becomes an obvious 'No' is if a Dev makes an unambiguously worded statement, along the lines of, 'AC swapping will never be added as a feature to SWTOR'. Even then, I would hope any Dev engaged in the ongoing development cycle of a game as malleable as an MMO understands the limits of the word 'never'.

I would see it far more likely to be a statement along the lines of...'AC swapping is not a feature we would envisage having to implement in the foreseeable future. While it remains a possibility and a feature we understand many players may like to take advantage of we are focusing at this time on adding more features that everyone wants.'
We all know about that statement from over a year ago and we all know that the phrase used was "likely happen eventually".

I'm curious as to your justification for holding that statement in such high regard as "the last word from the devs" on class changing, but want to completely dismiss the statements made by the devs regarding AC's being fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASSES and being treated as FULL CLASSES in and of themselves. Those statements have not been contradicted since they were made, making them the "last word from the devs" regarding AC's being different classes.

It seems to me that the biggest difference is that the former fits in with your desire to see class changes implemented and the latter does not.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.09.2014 , 03:49 PM | #4730
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
We all know about that statement from over a year ago and we all know that the phrase used was "likely happen eventually".

I'm curious as to your justification for holding that statement in such high regard as "the last word from the devs" on class changing, but want to completely dismiss the statements made by the devs regarding AC's being fundamentally DIFFERENT CLASSES and being treated as FULL CLASSES in and of themselves. Those statements have not been contradicted since they were made, making them the "last word from the devs" regarding AC's being different classes.

It seems to me that the biggest difference is that the former fits in with your desire to see class changes implemented and the latter does not.
Ratajack, again, you make this claim but the very statement made by DE was contradicted...by DE....both 2 months prior and 6 months after he made them. Proof was posted in this thread.

He first said they were "roles".....then "fundamentally different class designs"....then "specializations within your class". He even said "they were not designed to be classes in the classic sense" when asked why they listed only 8 classes on the page though he very clearly indicated that "different class designs" was the design intent 7 months prior.

He was giving his opinion. Just like the dev 18 months ago. That is all we have gotten is opinion it seems.