Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.07.2014 , 06:17 PM | #4681
Whether or not AC is a class is irrelevant. Just the fact that they even CONSIDERED AC swapping proves that. They don't seem to care if it is or is not....if I were them I would be concerned about the negative impact it could have on the game if implemented.

But no....AC being a class or not likely has nothing to do with whether or not this will happen. The current devs just dont seem to hold the same narrow stubborn self destructive views that the original gaggle of developers did.

Views like "Visual progression is an important part of the SWTOR experience by design", among others. Silly silly views that almost rocketed this game into oblivion IMO.

You can believe AC is a class. You can believe it is not. Those that believe it is probably some form of a class, maybe pseudo-class of sorts probably outnumber those that do not, and those folks would likely not like to see what should be a meaningful choice become trivialized.

But that doesn't mean because I see it as a "sort of" class it is a class. Nor does that mean that definition is important to the current devs...it is more likely it is not.

If this does not happen it will likely not be because it was "viewed as a class"....but more likely that "many players view it as a class of sorts" and they would probably react negatively to the change.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.07.2014 , 08:21 PM | #4682
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
They've also said yes to ac swapping (more than once). And to that dev that said "AC = Class" - that wasn't and isn't a reason to disallow ac swapping, just a guy selling a game to people that like big numbers (16 classes sounds better than 4). it never ceases to amaze me how some people fly around with random dev quotes as if they are some sort of prophetic commandments. In game documentation and the help guides on this site don't equate acs with classes as the word is used in other games.
Check your guild roster and give me an HONEST answer. What does your guild roster list your characters' CLASSES as being and what are their respective levels?

ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
05.08.2014 , 04:00 AM | #4683
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
They've also said yes to ac swapping (more than once). And to that dev that said "AC = Class" - that wasn't and isn't a reason to disallow ac swapping, just a guy selling a game to people that like big numbers (16 classes sounds better than 4). it never ceases to amaze me how some people fly around with random dev quotes as if they are some sort of prophetic commandments. In game documentation and the help guides on this site don't equate acs with classes as the word is used in other games.
There has only ever been one attributable quote remotely in the affirmative to the possibility of AC respec.
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/

All others were on the Beta forum and they quickly decided against it.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.08.2014 , 04:25 AM | #4684
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Whether or not AC is a class is irrelevant. Just the fact that they even CONSIDERED AC swapping proves that. They don't seem to care if it is or is not....if I were them I would be concerned about the negative impact it could have on the game if implemented.
Semantics are always fun, and many longer running arguments in the world are based on one persons interpretation word over another persons. I think the Devs are well aware of how the abilities are put together and what their decisions were for restricting access to the thought of AC swapping from the start.
While I am not for Class swapping (as SWTOR defines class, as I see the story and associated companions being core to that original choice) I don't have a hang up with an Advanced Class swap as it would have the potential to enrich the end game experience for me (although the only way I'd use it if it was a one time unlock, maybe gated by legacy or unlocking both ACs to max, so it was no more costly than the current cost of swapping Specialisation). I see the potential for the AC swap feature as a positive step to the long term appeal of the game for many players.

Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
But no....AC being a class or not likely has nothing to do with whether or not this will happen. The current devs just dont seem to hold the same narrow stubborn self destructive views that the original gaggle of developers did.

Views like "Visual progression is an important part of the SWTOR experience by design", among others. Silly silly views that almost rocketed this game into oblivion IMO.
I can't help but agree with you on this point. While I would give Bioware more credit than some for being original and taking risks with SWTOR, I feel that the decision to focus so much on story as the lynch pin of the game experience backed them into a very linear experience that has a very definite sense of completion (death for an MMO that really should feel open-ended), the class story experience also eclipsed the experience of all the content that's followed and in many ways trivialised it making it a hard task to draw a player back into the game once that last class quest is done.

Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
You can believe AC is a class. You can believe it is not. Those that believe it is probably some form of a class, maybe pseudo-class of sorts probably outnumber those that do not, and those folks would likely not like to see what should be a meaningful choice become trivialized.
The Role you play is a meaningful choice as it determines your function in the game. Class is a meaningful choice as it determines the story you will play through. Advanced Class choice is at best a choice the developers put in to restrict access to a character having access to core heal/tank abilities at the same time. In all meaningful ways it is a secondary stage of specialisation and trivialises that choice far less than when a player choses to switch specialisation from Tank to DPS.

Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
But that doesn't mean because I see it as a "sort of" class it is a class. Nor does that mean that definition is important to the current devs...it is more likely it is not.

If this does not happen it will likely not be because it was "viewed as a class"....but more likely that "many players view it as a class of sorts" and they would probably react negatively to the change.
If it doesn't happen I would imagine it would be because of the necessary development time to implement it well, the actual need for it (the metrics would be thje core for this argument), or an additional game component (more AC choices) that would drive its uptake. I doubt anyone has stopped playing as a direct result of not being able to switch AC, just as I don't see it being a big enough draw to tempt anyone back. This places it's priority for inclusion way down the list of things to get done.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.08.2014 , 04:34 AM | #4685
Quote: Originally Posted by ekwalizer View Post
There has only ever been one attributable quote remotely in the affirmative to the possibility of AC respec.
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/

All others were on the Beta forum and they quickly decided against it.
Beta's long over. I'm sure many choices argued for in Beta have changed, as such it can't be seen as the last word of what should and should not be considered for the future path of the game.

As to the merits of the quote in question, it was made by the current Lead Designer, it was the last thing said by a dev on the specific question of AC swap.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
05.08.2014 , 10:59 AM | #4686
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Check your guild roster and give me an HONEST answer. What does your guild roster list your characters' CLASSES as being and what are their respective levels?
As I've already told you, I can name 4 players off the top of my head who leveled up to 55 without picking an AC.

Instead, lets look at what Bioware considers "classes":
http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
05.08.2014 , 01:46 PM | #4687
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Beta's long over. I'm sure many choices argued for in Beta have changed, as such it can't be seen as the last word of what should and should not be considered for the future path of the game.

As to the merits of the quote in question, it was made by the current Lead Designer, it was the last thing said by a dev on the specific question of AC swap.
18 months ago.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
05.08.2014 , 01:53 PM | #4688
Quote: Originally Posted by ekwalizer View Post
18 months ago.
"Cathar" were talked about for almost a year too...your point? Things don't happen over night in an MMO.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

Savej's Avatar


Savej
05.08.2014 , 02:26 PM | #4689
Quote: Originally Posted by ekwalizer View Post
There has only ever been one attributable quote remotely in the affirmative to the possibility of AC respec.
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/16/swtor-f2...mion-schubert/

All others were on the Beta forum and they quickly decided against it.
oh, c'mon... There's a youtube video from a swtor hype session in July just before the game was released where producers/devs said "AC respecs will be in the game @release". There wasn't any hesitation or uncertainty or ambiguity in their answer at that time. They obviously changed their minds or decided to unprioritze development of that feature over the next 4 months but the video establishes that there is no philosophical consensus on the subject or mandate about "acs being full classes and therefore unswitchable" - not amongst the devs. They fully intended to allow AC swapping at the same time or right after they were developing ACs. The video is linked in this thread in a couple places, I'll dig it up later if needed.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.08.2014 , 03:52 PM | #4690
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
oh, c'mon... There's a youtube video from a swtor hype session in July just before the game was released where producers/devs said "AC respecs will be in the game @release". There wasn't any hesitation or uncertainty or ambiguity in their answer at that time. They obviously changed their minds or decided to unprioritze development of that feature over the next 4 months but the video establishes that there is no philosophical consensus on the subject or mandate about "acs being full classes and therefore unswitchable" - not amongst the devs. They fully intended to allow AC swapping at the same time or right after they were developing ACs. The video is linked in this thread in a couple places, I'll dig it up later if needed.
Maybe he should have said the others were made during beta, BEFORE RELEASE.

The point is that the devs determined BEFORE release that class changing (AC swapping) would not be possible, and to date that remains the case. Since the release of this game, the devs have never said that class changes WOULD be implemented.

I also notice that you chose not to answer my question. I am not surprised.