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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
03.11.2014 , 01:19 PM | #4241
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
It may be an old quote, but it is an old quote that has NEVER been contradicted. Even that last statement about allowing class changes, which is itself well over a year old, does not contradict those earlier statements.
But your core definition of what a class is and isn't consistently relies on going to other games such as WoW. Rather than say looking at how SWTOR refers to CLasses and Advanced Classes within its own material such as the Holonet. In this game consistent context Advanced Classes read as a sub-set of specialisation within the core Class.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Let's look at this logically.
That would be a first

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
We have the devs stating that AC's are DIFFERENT classes. We have multiple warnings that your choice of AC is PERMANENT. The devs even went so far as to make drastic changes in the confirmation boxes when you make your AC choice as well as adding those multiple warnings about the PERMANENCY of your decision.
Which is always open to change as the game develops. Personally I feel this was implemented around the time of the Beta as AC swaping had been asked for at that time (and had probably been planned) and it was easier to code and more familiar with the hardcore gamers. Ones that feel their characters role forms the core of their identity.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Then we have a mass of "lazy, entitled, have to have it now and for as little effort as possible" players who want to ignore the fact that they KNEW they were making a PERMANENT choice and cry tha they be allowed to change their class.
There's nothing lazy or entitled about knowing how valuable time is. And,I can assure you it's the one commodity you'll never get more of in your life. If a player chooses to spend a few dollars to extend the lifespan of SWTOR by expanding the options of gameplay on a character they have already put some time into then good for them.
And expecting a player to be clairvoyant enough to know the playstyle of an Advanced Class that doesn't have a full rotation until the mid 40s or the future composition and needs of a guild, and then punish them for the choices they made at level 10 is a little harsh.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
In response, we get ONE dev who makes a vague, ambiguous statement that AC swapping will "likely happen". He gives NO kind of time frame, nor does he state they AC swapping WILL happen. He does, however, also mention that species changes will "likely happen" in that same statement. Species changes, a purely COSMETIC change, have been implemented, yet the class changes, which would be a change to fundamental game play mechanics, has not.
See the above post I made about how Species change was rolled out at the time a new species was made available. I see a potential similarity in allowing an AC swap function at a time when new ACs are implemented and demand would be greater.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Further, since that ambiguous statement from well over a year ago, there has been NOTHING from the devs on class changes, not even a whisper of a hint. The devs have been TOTALLY silent on this subject, despite this over 420 page thread and countless others. We haven't seen anything to indicate that allowing class changes is even still on the "wall of crazy".
There was nothing ambiguous about the statement made by the Lead Game Designer Damion Schubert. The Devs tend to be silent on the vast majority of subjects unless they have anything concrete to add. While it is a long thread it is one that sees constant attention from a very small and vocal minority for and against (yes I'm one of those).

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Is it not possible that the devs see the AC's a different classes and have no intention of allowing class changes at this time. Is it possible that they realize that allowing class changes WILL cost them subscribers? Is it possible that the devs got tired of the clamoring from players wanting to have a new class handed to them and issued a "soft no" in the guise of "likely happen"?
Most things in life are possible, and your scenario is just as possible as my suggestion that they have considered it will only garner the best return if it is released at a time that a large part of the player base wish to use such a function. Such as the roll out of new Advanced Classes. It could just as easily be seen as exactly what Damion Schubert said. The devs have considered it. It is likely. No time frame.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
is it also possible that the devs could implement allowing class changes? Yes, but I do not expect that to happen until this game is well and truly on its last leg. Allowing class changes would, IMO, be a last ditch effort to either keep players or to bring them back.
But it still isn't a class change as SWTOR defines a class.
It is and always has been asking about the potential time frame for an Advanced Class change.

But, at this point in time I doubt either of us will ever see eye to eye with the other

DuEldrvarya's Avatar


DuEldrvarya
03.11.2014 , 01:21 PM | #4242
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I am 100% in favor of people switching AC's to be FOTM if they want...God knows Bioware doesn't take balance seriously. If switching AC would keep a player having fun in the game, I'm 100% for it. As it is now, almost every DPS in HM DP/DF is a Slinger...this would just allow others to join the fun.

FOTM issues are created by poor balancing and neglecting balance, which Bioware is notorious for. Let the players 'balance' themselves.
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.11.2014 , 01:22 PM | #4243
Quote: Originally Posted by DuEldrvarya View Post
Yea bioware doesn't balance very well, so lets just let players pay to balance themselves! Great idea!
Glad you agree! Thanks for your support
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Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
03.11.2014 , 01:28 PM | #4244
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Yes, they can add those extra character slots without paying a single cent if they purchase them off the GTN, but SOMEONE has to purchase those character slots. This IS money in their coffers.

The same goes for allowing class changes. If they were to add an item that caters to those too lazy to level that new class, someone would have to purchase it. That free to play or preferred player could just as easily purchase the "lazy" item from the GTN and get that new class without paying a cent, but SOMEONE had to buy it.

Either way that free to play or preferred player would be able to play that new class without paying a cent, yet you want to claim that leaving things as they are generates no revenue for BW but allowing class changes would magically fill their coffers?
The key to my comment was 'can' purchase, and yes I know that someone has to purchase the extra slots so some money is going back to SWTOR but F2P have 2 slots on every server and Preferred Players have 6 slots on every server. So there is no real need for them to purchase any.

When dealing with microtransactions those with a fixed function (ie one shot unlocks) tend to return a lump sum at outset and then no more (such as the extra character slots, once you have the maximum amount of 10 you can't purchase more)

Whereas consumables operating a switch have no potential limit. If a player wants to flip between a powertech or mercenary once a fortnight until they unplug the servers then that's possible.

I don't think it would ever fill the coffers, but it seems to stand as a far more attractive proposition of getting some return on investment than the limited return of additional character slots.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
03.11.2014 , 01:31 PM | #4245
Quote: Originally Posted by Slicka View Post
I don't agree with it, but at the same time when it was stated, Erickson was talking about choices having an impact in your gameplay experience. Several features that were available in beta such as killing off various companions were rewritten then so I can agree that there isn't much of an argument against it.

Spoiler
So true, I don't think I have a single character where I feel the group of companions they have is realistic. I'm not sure I'd feel strong enough about it to kill them but certainly leave before they made it back to the spaceship

Spoiler

ryniloym's Avatar


ryniloym
03.11.2014 , 01:54 PM | #4246
This just in:

As of right now, there is no ETA on advanced class changes. Stay tuned for more minute to minute coverage of when you'll get to change your advanced class.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
03.11.2014 , 01:57 PM | #4247
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
But your core definition of what a class is and isn't consistently relies on going to other games such as WoW. Rather than say looking at how SWTOR refers to CLasses and Advanced Classes within its own material such as the Holonet. In this game consistent context Advanced Classes read as a sub-set of specialisation within the core Class.
Not MY core definition, but rather that of the devs. You can point out the holopage, and I'll point out that the holopage has been redesigned to show what two AC's (classes) each story line can access as well as to give a little idea of what each talent tree would be like.



Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Which is always open to change as the game develops. Personally I feel this was implemented around the time of the Beta as AC swaping had been asked for at that time (and had probably been planned) and it was easier to code and more familiar with the hardcore gamers. Ones that feel their characters role forms the core of their identity.
That may have been when they made the statements about AC's being different classes, but you zealously refuse to acknowledge that they have NEVER ONCE contradicted those statements.


Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
There's nothing lazy or entitled about knowing how valuable time is. And,I can assure you it's the one commodity you'll never get more of in your life. If a player chooses to spend a few dollars to extend the lifespan of SWTOR by expanding the options of gameplay on a character they have already put some time into then good for them.
And expecting a player to be clairvoyant enough to know the playstyle of an Advanced Class that doesn't have a full rotation until the mid 40s or the future composition and needs of a guild, and then punish them for the choices they made at level 10 is a little harsh.
No more so than expecting a player to know how a pally will play at high levels when they create that pally. Choosing your class with limited information is part of MMO's. You don't get a do-over if you choose "wrong" or if they nerf your chosen class.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
See the above post I made about how Species change was rolled out at the time a new species was made available. I see a potential similarity in allowing an AC swap function at a time when new ACs are implemented and demand would be greater.
If they implement a new AC, then allowing class changes would have a bit more merit. However, when MMO's introduce new classes, you typically don't get to change one of your current characters into that new class. You must actually <GASP> put forth the effort to actually level that new class, even if they allow to start that class at a higher level.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
There was nothing ambiguous about the statement made by the Lead Game Designer Damion Schubert. The Devs tend to be silent on the vast majority of subjects unless they have anything concrete to add. While it is a long thread it is one that sees constant attention from a very small and vocal minority for and against (yes I'm one of those).
Nothing ambiguous? Did he give any kind of time frame for the implementation of these supposed class changes? Did he say that class changes WOULD happen? Have we had people in this very thread using that statement as "proof" that the devs have said AC changes WILL happen? That statement sure seems rather indefinite and open to interpretation to me, which is the definition of ambiguous, BTW.


Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Most things in life are possible, and your scenario is just as possible as my suggestion that they have considered it will only garner the best return if it is released at a time that a large part of the player base wish to use such a function. Such as the roll out of new Advanced Classes. It could just as easily be seen as exactly what Damion Schubert said. The devs have considered it. It is likely. No time frame.
Given the fact that the devs have been at least a little more forthcoming with communication about things they are planning to implement or even considering, do you REALLY think that they would remain so absolutely silent if they were even considering allowing class changes? There silence on this matter makes even less sense if they were considering allowing it since so many in favor of it want to claim there is an incredibly high demand for the option to change classes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
But it still isn't a class change as SWTOR defines a class.
It is and always has been asking about the potential time frame for an Advanced Class change.

But, at this point in time I doubt either of us will ever see eye to eye with the other
Except that it is about class changes as the devs define a class, by the devs own statements and the changes they have made to the game and the holopage to make this distinction more evident.

Seldan's Avatar


Seldan
03.11.2014 , 02:09 PM | #4248
Quote: Originally Posted by DuEldrvarya View Post
Yea bioware doesn't balance very well, so lets just let players pay to balance themselves! Great idea!
Take a step back and look at the big picture.

NiM Raiders and Ranked PvPs are a small percentage of the player base. The majority of TOR players are casual players. NiM quality raiders will min/max no matter what, so denying an AC change feature will ultimately prevent nothing.

I imagine the largest consumers of this feature would be casual players who are bored of their current AC, or curious as to how the other AC performs. Perhaps a player may regain interest in that level 42 Guardian and change to a Sentinel. This feature has the potential to generate additional revenue and retain players.

Will some players FOTM swap for some perceived advantage in other aspects of the game, such as 8v8 warzones? Perhaps. If they want to provide the game with more revenue, then why not?

Looking at the rest of the market:
  • Everquest 2 has an Advanced Class system, they allow AC changes.
  • WoW has implemented a Level 90 character boost feature
  • Rift - Allows soul swapping and role configurations to a ridiculous extent

Bioware should implement an AC change feature as well.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.11.2014 , 02:14 PM | #4249
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Except that it is about class changes as the devs define a class, by the devs own statements and the changes they have made to the game and the holopage to make this distinction more evident.
I only see 8 classes listed here and here.

Here's an excerpt from the 2nd link:
Quote:
Choosing Your Class

Each Class is represented with a visual icon at the bottom of your game window. This is the single most important choice that you will ever make in Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, as your Class not only determines your combat style and how to play, but it also determines which of the unique stories you will experience! To help you in this decision, we’ve listed each of the playable classes below:
Please note the highlighted yellow portion - according to Bioware, each class has a UNIQUE story. I think that safely excludes "Advanced Classes" from being called "Classes".
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Reno_Tarshil's Avatar


Reno_Tarshil
03.11.2014 , 02:19 PM | #4250
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I only see 8 classes listed here and here.

Here's an excerpt from the 2nd link:

Please note the highlighted yellow portion - according to Bioware, each class has a UNIQUE story. I think that safely excludes "Advanced Classes" from being called "Classes".
Well if you wish to get technical, each faction has "8 Classes"
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