ETA on Advanced Class change?

Where did I say ANYTHING about operatives tanking? Where did I say anything about EVERY character being able to tank or heal?

I said that the devs intentionally designed the classes such that no single character could fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. I have yet to see a character in ANY game be both the tank and healer for a group at the same time.

Allowing class changes will negate the devs intentional design not to allow a single character to fill all three roles (AT ANY TIME) by allowing some(just to avoid confusion) characters to fill all three roles, even if they cannot fill all three roles at the same time.

His point is on wobbly legs barely able to withstand the force of gravity. The answer has been provided a number of times. It's just that you won't acknowledge it. It's an extremely weak argument if all you can come up with is "It won't affect you and...and....and....you're envious!" Envious of what, precisely? That isn't even an argument. It's desperation.

While the talents may be level dependent, the general PLAYSTYLE is not. A vanguard is MELEE damage/tank while a commando is RANGED damage/heals. It makes no difference what spec you are as a vanguard, you are MELEE, while any commando spec is RANGED. I think most people will know within 5 levels, 10 at the most, whether they like melee combat or whether they would like to try ranged combat.



A simple quest chain is nowhere near as effective at teaching someone to use NEW skills as leveling is, especially since you get those new skills one or two at a time, rather than having a bunch thrown at you all at once. How do you determine what skills even need to be part of the quest chain, since a person changing class at level 15 does not have the same number of skills as a person who changes class at 55, not to mention all the spec specific skills as well.

Also, there is no guarantee that a player will even DO the tutorial quest chain. I do not see a way to make it mandatory. Are you going to stop a player completely from doing anything after they change their class until they complete the tutorial quest chain? How do you stop a player from doing anything in the game? Are you going to say that you cannot change your class until you complete the quest chain? How do you do that when the player does not have the skills for the new class yet?



What incorrect information did that poster post, or is this statement just an attempt to misdirect and mislead those reading this thread?



Restrictions? So many people want to propose restrictions on class changes. They ignore one thing, though. We already have restrictions on class changes. Restrictions already exist, yet here we have a 300+ page thread, and countless other threads, full of people asking that those restrictions be lifted or lowered simply because some people don't want to be bothered top use mechanics already in place to play a new class.

If they allow class changes, with ANY restrictions, these forums will simply be full of people asking that THOSE restrictions be lifted or lowered. All you need to do is look at this thread full of people asking for the current restrictions to be lifted or lowered to see that.




A warning? Do you mean something like the 4 warnings that every player gets when they choose their AC that their choice is PERMANENT? Do you mean a confirmation box like the two confirmation boxes every player has to click to acknowledge that they know their choice is PERMANENT and that they are selecting the AC they want?




Requiring a max level character of either the desired class or the mirror of the desired class is perfectly reasonable, as it gives some indication that the person who wishes to change their class has played that class and is familiar with the skills, even if the animation and names are different.



IMO, this is complete and total BS. IMO, nothing makes a choice more meaningful than NOT being able to undo that choice.

Let me paraphrase what you are saying:

I have a choice to make at level 10. I know that choice is PERMANENT, as I receive 4 warnings that it is PERMANENT, and have to confirm twice that I know that the choice is PERMANENT. Yet, I want to claim that this choice lacks meaning. I want to claim that what will make this choice more meaningful is if I can make is allowing me to change my mind later.

How does this sound? A man wants to marry his girlfriend but wants to reserve the right to trade her for a new girl if he decides in 3 years he's bored with her. He claims that reserving the right to trade his girlfriend/wife in for a new girl will make his initial choice to marry his then girlfriend more meaningful.

That quote didn't "refute it", it confirmed that their stance hasn't changed since launch and that AC respecs remain a possibility.

honestly? the only reason I speak of needing restrictions in place is to find a compromise and address concerns people have. if it were up to me? there will be NO restrictions to switching AC. it would work EXACTLY the way field respec works right now.
but since we're trying to (or at least I am) to find something that could work for the most amount of people and adress concerns - restrictions get brought into the conversation.

and btw - "NO CHANGE" is not a compromise and neither is allowing it in such a limited way as to render it pointless.

So you say AC change will allow characters to perform all three roles at the same time.....then when I mention operatives all the sudden it's not true.

Nice logic there.

Then you keep using the words "same time", meaning if you are in a fight. Let's say I'm an assassin tank, then I can use all the sorc abilities in the middle of a boss fight. Since that would qualify as "same time".

Unlike what pro-AC change supporters are asking which is a 2 time switch with a 30 day CD slapped on it. So much for that "same time" deal huh?

If only the devs hadn't made those pesky statements IN BETWEEN the one that you quoted and the one from November 2012 that they WOULD NOT be allowing class changes, you could claim that their stance has not changed since the statement that you quoted.

As it stands, we can absolutely state the devs have not changed their stance since launch because we could NOT change class at launch, and we CANNOT change class now.

Damion Schubert:
We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well.

If only the devs hadn't made those pesky statements IN BETWEEN the one that you quoted and the one from November 2012 that they WOULD NOT be allowing class changes, you could claim that their stance has not changed since the statement that you quoted.

As it stands, we can absolutely state the devs have not changed their stance since launch because we could NOT change class at launch, and we CANNOT change class now.

As I stated before, the devs intended that no single character be able to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME. Allowing class changes will undermine and negate this design intent by allowing some characters to fill all three roles, even if not every character can fill all three roles.

vanguard starts out with the same abilities as merc. ranged abilities. 5 levels into the character - you have NO idea how to play that character. you are often times, still using those abilities you got before selecting your advanced class. lvl 15- 20 teaches you very little, especially since early talents are of "plus hit, plus crit" passive variety.

nothing can teach you how to play a class as much as leveling? I agree... to a point. that's why we get healers who cannot heal because they leveled as a dps and tanks who cannot tank, because they did the same. people tend to only really level as one spec at a time and there's a learning curve in learning a new spec. you claim that that learning curve is bigger when switching between advanced classes. Having played every single advanced class in this game? I say - nope. curve from going between roles and even specs is about the same as from switching between advanced classes. and yet... we are allowed to switch our specs as much as we'd like

and yes - just like that warning that you get ONCE... that is CURRENTLY permanent. it doesn't have to remain permanent any more than your appearance on character creation.

and I stand behind my assertion that flexibility in choices is what gives them degree of meaning. you already have to make a choice as to which story to play. from that point on? it should be more flexible than that.

and will people demand removal of restrictions? probably.

honestly? the only reason I speak of needing restrictions in place is to find a compromise and address concerns people have. if it were up to me? there will be NO restrictions to switching AC. it would work EXACTLY the way field respec works right now.
but since we're trying to (or at least I am) to find something that could work for the most amount of people and adress concerns - restrictions get brought into the conversation.

and btw - "NO CHANGE" is not a compromise and neither is allowing it in such a limited way as to render it pointless.

P.S. what exactly is the problem in allowing a single character ability to perform all 3 roles exactly? why is it such a bad thing?

replayability of this game is mainly in its story first and foremost anyways.