ETA on Advanced Class change?

That is just not true. There are plenty of people bad at the low levels but as they get higher they learn. Everyone has to learn sometime. There are plenty that don't seem to want to learn or even refuse to, for those it won't matter. But for the majority I like to think that practice makes perfect, or at least adequate.

Not saying you are automatically bad at the new one, just that there's a lot new things to learn. There is some overlapping, but you don't know everything and some things are different while called the same. I already meet more than enough people that go "Oh, I have a CC ability?"

We don't know if most of us can, frankly I doubt it. I know I have some natural ability to pick up on the basics easy, but I still prefer the way it is now. You get one or two skills at a time, you can play with them before you get the next.

We're not talking about people that are already playing both and know the basics of both. We're talking of people that may have played one and not the other. People may get overwhelmed by the mountain of new skills that they first need to acquire.

It's not hard to prepare for it yourself, but not everyone is prepared. I still see assassins running around with single sabers in mid-high level FPs. You and I may be able to cope, others definitely can't.

I'm saying there is more to it than meets the eye, and there are plenty of people that do need to be protected from making stupid mistakes they are not ready for. Cause if they make those mistakes others are affected by it. You and me can deal with our own actions, but I hate to see group content fall apart because other people didn't know.

So what's wrong with making people have had a level 50 or 55 of the other AC on this or the other faction?
So what is wrong with putting a big warning message before you accept the advanced class change?

I see no need, I want to play a different class, I re-roll. Just as in every other MMO I've played.

Do you mean like the big "THIS CHOICE IS PERMANENT" warnings every player sees and acknowledges when they choose their AC? Do you mean the warnings that those who want class changes acknowledged and accepted but are now trying to get around?

We already have restrictions on class changes in place. These restrictions were designed and implemented by the devs, not the players. These restrictions have been in place since before the game was released, and are still in place despite the cries for class changes. Each and every player knows what those restrictions are, since each and every player sees the warnings and even has to click the confirmation boxes acknowledging that they saw and understand the warnings.

I guess some people either do not understand the word PERMANENT or they simply think the "rules" don't apply to them.

The problem with your talking points, Ratajack, is that the very same issues come to the fore for anyone leveling up a new toon. Whether they take a current toon and change to the other AC, or level up a toon of the new AC from scratch, they will run into the same issues.

AC change simply takes leveling out of the equation. The boring, mind-numbing grind just to check out the other AC in your class is entirely unnecessary.

Once you've leveled a character to 55, every other character...no matter if it's ranged or melee, dps or tank...will be easier. Anyone can learn a new AC by doing nothing more than Makeb dailies after a little research on rotations and builds at the most. We don't need to "play around" with new abilities from level to level to learn, we only need to play around with them. Whether we do the playing around one ability at a time or all of them at once doesn't matter.

Bad players will be bad until they learn to be good. It doesn't matter if they are bad at Commando or Vanguard, they will still be bad. Heck, allowing them to change an AC might actually let them discover the play style that bests suits them...making them better players in the process...and not punish them for an arbitrary decision 10 levels into the characters existence when newer players haven't got a real clue outside of a couple of paragraphs that poorly describe each AC.

Maybe, maybe not. And if so, so what?

Let them care. Who cares?

It is all about money. If BWEA determined that AC change would be bad overall money-wise, they wouldn't do it. If they determined it would be good overall, they would do it. End of story.

No, some changes are bad for the game in your opinion.

"Who cares?" is the only reasonable answer. If you are so wrapped up in TOR that it matters that much to you whether it lives or dies, perhaps you need a break. It's a game, not a social justice movement. Get a grip. I will play as long as I enjoy it. When I stop enjoying it, I will quit. Same is true for you. Same is true for everyone. By definition, no one engages in a leisure activity they do not enjoy on some level and for one reason or another. And eventually, the game will die.

It is not just a game.. It is a means for a company to make money.. If everyone leaves because of a change that nobody likes.. Then the game can be shut down.. Played SWG lately?? That was just a game too... Where is it now??

It is not just a game.. I thought you were smarter than that bran..

And a driud is the exact reason we do not need class swapping in this game.. Characters are supposed to be different hence the point of having a class..

There is no problem here.. No changing classes is the rule here.. As it is in WOW..

What people are asking for is class change because they don't want to have to put forth the time and minimal effort to actually level that new class. If you want to play a different class, you can do that now. You simply have to put forth a modicum of time and effort to do so, and that is not a bad thing. It gives those players time to learn the new class while leveling.

Name two mainstream MMO's that allow class changes. If you want to play a different class, you can do that now. You simply have to put forth a modicum of time and effort to do so, and that is not a bad thing. It gives those players time to learn the new class while leveling.

I'm sorry if you feel that leveling is a grind. Welcome to world of MMO's. Doing dailies is a grind, but if you want to earn those credits, you have to do those dailies. Doing the same OPS week after week is a grind, but you have to do those OPS to get the best gear. Getting a new class is no different. If you want to play a new class, you have to level that class. Those are the game mechanics, as designed and implemented by the devs, not the players.

Yes, the devs can change those mechanics any time they wish, but they are under NO obligation to do so simply because some players want to play a new class but don't want to bother leveling that new class.

You're right, we shouldn't be able to switch classes because the classes are different. The AC's are more similar than different within the class, however. You can not compare WoW to SWTOR because WoW does not split classes up into sub-classes.

But if you want to use the WoW example, look at how different each Druid spec is. No one says that a Restoration Druid who switches to a Feral spec is now "bad" because the two spec's are so incredibly different in feel and execution. Or look at the difference between Destruction Warlocks and Demonology 'locks. They are also extremely different in play and execution. And all Druid and Warlock (or all WoW) spec's often share less similarities between specs than SWTOR's spec's in two different AC's do within the same class.

Characters aren't supposed to be different, classes are. And the 4 mirrored classes are all different from one another. But the 2 AC's within a single class are not so horribly different and share more similarities than they do differences.

No one is asking to change from Trooper to Knight, just from one type of Trooper to the other. Were the AC's well and truly so very different from one another, no one would be asking for an AC change either.

Ranged to melee isn't a huge change. The only difference is in how close you stand to your target. You still dodge circles the same, you still go through a rotation, you still deal with boss mechanics. So saying that going from Commando to Vanguard is so very different is absolutely false. Ok, I get to pull with Vanguard instead of push with Commando...big deal. Weapons? Again, the look isn't important; the mods inside are. I can easily yank the mods from my Assault Cannon and slap them into a Blaster Rifle and not skip a beat.

First.. WOW can be used because people are comparing the laws of what a class is.. There actually are no laws which renders this part of the discussion both stupid and irrelevant... As long as there is no governing body that decides what is or isn't a class.. Gaming companies like Bioware and Blizzard can decide what is or isn't a class.. Our arguing about it is both stupid and meaningless.. Bioware says that our AC is our class.. Case closed..

I use WOW as an example because there are a lot of people that seem to think they know rules as to what makes a class and what doesn't.. Like the 'This AC is the same as that AC..'' argument.. One of the most common and the lamest in my opinion.. In WOW, the Mage and Warlock are very much the same.. Yet they are both different classes.. The reason some people are against the usage of WOW is actually simple.. They don't want their logic used against them.. What they don't understand is that for logic to work and hold up, it has to hold up to scrutiny in other examples.. If it doesn't, then it was bad logic and a dumb idea.. The definition for a class must be the same in any MMO for it to be considered any kind of definition.. You can't give it different reasons in different games as that becomes a double standard.. But let's just say that you believe it is ok to do that as well.. Well.. The gaming companies do that now.. Perhaps it is time to deal with the rule you just agreed to..

This game was largely based on WOW.. It was designed to directly compete with WOW in the market place.. WOW is and always will be a perfect comparison.. If you don't like the comparison, then get some new logic..

This game has 16 player classes.. 8 root classes with stories.. The only reason there is 8 anything is the story.. Can you imagine how big and how much this game would cost if they made 16 stories all voiced?? That is why the classes were set up the way they are.. Just because of the stories.. It was to costly to write and voice 8 more stories.. This however doesn't change anything as far as class..

There is simply no reason that we need AC swapping.. People just want a Druid in this game.. A class that can do it all.. I for one, and there are many others like me, that are glad there isn't.. Bioware even stated during the beta that they didn't want a single class to be able to both tank and heal.. Many others and myself also agree with that little rule.. If people want a class that can do it all.. Then they are playing the wrong game..