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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

PeterTLJr's Avatar


PeterTLJr
08.03.2013 , 12:44 AM | #2761
Quote: Originally Posted by ekwalizer View Post
I'm sorry, no. Paladin is a CLASS.
Mercenary is a CLASS
Powertech is a CLASS.

Merc and PT share a STORY, some skills and Companions.

That is where the similarities end.
http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes
For those who are confused about classes.
Bounty hunter is your class, Powertech/Mercenary is your advance class (Spec, Soul, ect).

http://www.riftgame.com/en/characters/
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/class/
As you can see, each game has its BASE CLASS. Then theres the detailed class, whatever fancy name they want to give it.
Base class --> Detailed Class = Your character
^do not change ^ what we want to change
In order to appreciate the Light, you must spend time in the Darkness.
Peace will win and fear will lose.

ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
08.03.2013 , 12:56 AM | #2762
But back OT:

The argument that they share primary stats is way off base.

DPS:
Primary Stat: STR, AIM, CUN, WILL
Next: PWR
Next: CRIT
Next SUR

Heal:
Primary Stat: STR, AIM, CUN, WILL
Next: PWR
Next: CRIT
Next SUR

Tank:
Primary Stat: ENDURANCE (Note how that is not STR, AIM, CUN, WILL)
((In no particular order to keep from having a tank stat fight))
Defense (Note how that is not PWR)
Shield (Note how that is not CRIT)
Absorb (Note how that is not SUR).


So, by logic given in this thread. DPS/Heal should be interchangeable based on stat allocation, and they are.

ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
08.03.2013 , 01:02 AM | #2763
Quote: Originally Posted by PeterTLJr View Post
http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes
For those who are confused about classes.
Bounty hunter is your class, Powertech/Mercenary is your advance class (Spec, Soul, ect).

http://www.riftgame.com/en/characters/
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/class/
As you can see, each game has its BASE CLASS. Then theres the detailed class, whatever fancy name they want to give it.
Base class --> Detailed Class = Your character
^do not change ^ what we want to change
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson

"The advanced class system exists because we’re already making the game story-wise bigger than every other game we’ve done put together. We pretty topped out at eight. It’s already huge and ridiculous, but for an MMOG, we wanted more classes than that for a variety of gameplay. Each of the advanced classes is basically a full class that we would have done."


Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson
"We had alot of internal debate whether to release the advanced classes, and people need to understand they are "works in progress". We have a very complicated class system. The advanced classes are TOTAL class systems by themselves. You can't think of other games where you have little offshoots.
Obviously, the ideal is that people don't ever need to respec their Advanced Class. There are additional measures we are putting in place to improve the communication about that choice to the player before it happens. Ideally, we would also allow you to 'test drive' the AC , but that's fairly expensive and unlikely to happen. It's more likely that we stick with a short period (a few levels) during which you can change your AC class for a credit cost before it locks in. We might attach other limiters than just credits (e.g completely disable the option past level 20 instead of a very high cost of credits.). That's what testing will determine."



A few things from our point of view (the devs):

"Your Advanced Class choice very much defines how your character plays from the moment you choose it. Their impact is more akin to that of a different class in other MMOs than that of a different 'spec'. A Sith Sorcerer is very, very different from a Sith Assassin.


As mentioned before, the ability to respec your skills is definitely in the game. At this point, it costs credits but has no other requirements or limitations. The exact cost will be fine tuned, probably until ship, in conjunction with the rest of the economy - so giving precise numbers at this point isn't helpful.


We haven't made up our mind yet about the availability of an Advanced Class respec. We are evaluating all options (no Advanced Class respec, fixed cost respec, respec cost increasing with level, etc.).
A lot of thought currently goes into the consequences of Advanced Class respec - if we allow it, it will require players to relearn their entire approach to combat (which they learned over many many hours before) and replace the majority of their equipment, so it's not a thing we would want the player to do lightly, or just out of curiosity.

Ultimately, testing will tell us what we'll go with for launch, but even then - MMOs change, new content is added, player preferences emerge and change, so this is likely one of those topics we will be frequently discussing even after launch to ensure the design matches the expectations of our players and does not introduce unwelcome side effects.

With all this said - thank you very much for your continued feedback and thoughts on the topic. We are actively reading and discussing the topic frequently."
Yes, I have read the Damon Schubert interview. That was 9 months ago and zero movement has been made on this topic.

My point is, quotes don't mean much.

ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
08.03.2013 , 01:07 AM | #2764
Quote: Originally Posted by PeterTLJr View Post
http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes
For those who are confused about classes.
Bounty hunter is your class, Powertech/Mercenary is your advance class (Spec, Soul, ect).

http://www.riftgame.com/en/characters/
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/class/
As you can see, each game has its BASE CLASS. Then theres the detailed class, whatever fancy name they want to give it.
Base class --> Detailed Class = Your character
^do not change ^ what we want to change
And you are wrong anyway. Retribution is a spec, not a class. Paladin is a class. Or am I confused? Does a Holy Pal and a Ret Pal have a different set of quest arcs?

Whereas, Merc and PT are different classes. Not because the have different quests but because they have wholly different talent trees.

Paladin is 1 class with 3 trees. Merc is 1 class with 3 trees. PT is one class with 3 trees. The "shared tree" isn't exact, as I pointed out already.

Grayseven's Avatar


Grayseven
08.03.2013 , 06:49 AM | #2765
I keep seeing the argument against AC change that people won't be able to play their "new" AC...

Folks, this is a very poor argument against.

If someone can't play their current AC, they won't be able to play their new AC. It's a wash since they already can't play regardless.

If someone can play their current AC, they will be able to play a new AC just as well. They have the game knowledge to easily pick up a rotation.

Use common sense. How many of us jump from class to class or spec to spec already? I go from DPS Commando to Healing Commando multiple times a day, and then jump to Counselor, Knight, IA, Inquistor...all in one day without missing a beat.

If I haven't played a class in a while (i.e. my Jugg) it might take me a couple of minutes to get in fresh in my mind, but that happens long before I actually group for anything with it.

So using "it'll make my queues suck more" just won't fly. Most of the anti-AC crowd seems to cling to this fallacy when it has absolutely no bearing on the argument whatsoever.
"50 Grades of Shae", a heart-warming novel about a Mandalorian that delivers beat-downs and assigns grades to her victims.

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
08.03.2013 , 07:50 AM | #2766
Quote: Originally Posted by PeterTLJr View Post
None. But I can go through other games that have the similar situation as this game biggest one being Rift. If you start out as a Warrior in rift, you then pick your Soul (which is similar to AC). And your able to switch between all the souls in the Warrior because your still the warrior. World of Warcraft is similar to how SWTOR is. You start out a paladin, at level 10 you pick what you want to be as that paladin, they just dont have as many skill trees as swtor does for each class.

Each game has their own unique way of going further into each class. In the majority of games your able to switch around within your base class. As long as its not CLASS switching, and switching ACs is not class switching.
Bioware has stated that they view ACs as their own class. Switching ACs is indeed switching classes. Bioware gets to define the game, you do not.
James Ohlen: " For 2012 we really want players to feel like they're getting their money's worth. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."

Grayseven's Avatar


Grayseven
08.03.2013 , 07:58 AM | #2767
Quote: Originally Posted by Soluss View Post
Bioware has stated that they view ACs as their own class. Switching ACs is indeed switching classes. Bioware gets to define the game, you do not.
Bioware also made a statement towards allowing AC change. Since they do, indeed, get to define the game then they may believe that switching AC's is NOT switching classes...
"50 Grades of Shae", a heart-warming novel about a Mandalorian that delivers beat-downs and assigns grades to her victims.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
08.03.2013 , 08:08 AM | #2768
Quote: Originally Posted by PeterTLJr View Post
Because I don't go read through 250+ pages of people barking at each other i'm ignoring reasons that your refusing to put on the table? I'm trying to have a debate with you about this, if your going to stand up for something then speak up and lets debate, if you don't want too quit replying to me trying to make it seem like i'm refusing to talk about this.
You do not want to debate. If you truly wanted to "debate", you would take the time to read this thread and find the reasons that he, and others, have posted countless times describing why allowing class changes could negatively impact the game and should not be allowed.

Your refusal to go back and read this thread to see the reasons that have been posted countless times falls into the category of LAZY, which considering the source, does not surprise me.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
08.03.2013 , 08:14 AM | #2769
Quote: Originally Posted by PeterTLJr View Post
After going back through some of your posts, I believe you are confused with story/class. Bounty hunter is indeed a class, not just a story.
Powertech and Mercenary are DIFFERENT classes. You could classify bounty hunter as a class, but that makes powertech and mercenary no less there own SEPARATE classes.

That is according to the devs, not just my spin. If you doubt me, go back and read the thread. The links to the devs quote have been posted.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
08.03.2013 , 08:24 AM | #2770
Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven View Post
Bioware also made a statement towards allowing AC change. Since they do, indeed, get to define the game then they may believe that switching AC's is NOT switching classes...
When BW made the statement that AC changes would "likely happen" at some undetermined point in the future, they did NOT, in any way, contradict their earlier statements that AC are DIFFERENT classes. If yo have been paying attention, you would also know that the devs have not uttered even a whisper about allowing class changes since that statement, even in the face of this 270+ page thread, not even a "we're not saying no to the possibility", "we're still considering" or "we're working on it".