ETA on Advanced Class change?

That's a good reference. I wasn't trying to compare them, simply illustrating that it is out there.

I can't even compare pre-NGE SWG to TOR. I was a MBH/CM4000. That is already pretty similar to Arsenal or Pyro Merc. Primarily ranged DPS, but have a few survivability heals if you need them.

My point was more that no AAA MMO allows it. There will always be outliers. But when doing statistical analysis it's best to remove the anomalies. In this case FFXI is the outlier.

Current list, pros and cons as reported by participants, updated as needed as we go.


Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 3

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 4

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 7

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - Must level one character to max level in an AC to unlock legacy ability to switch AC for that class - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 8

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - maximum 8 changes per account, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 9

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

Option 10

No AC change allowed.



And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.


PROS

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.
2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.
3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.
4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.


CONS

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.
2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.
3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.
4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.
5) This will likely further demean AC choice.
6) Could cause FOTM issues.
7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.


I have decided to support option 1, option 7 but would prefer option 10. I like the idea of option 7...you have to level an AC to max level to get a legacy unlock you can use to switch to that AC inside the class for another character account wide.

I still prefer no AC change, but I'm open to support 1 and 7.

I would also add what I would like to see happen with respect to AC.

1) Bioware would come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that AC IS YOUR CLASS.

2) Make AC choice mandatory at level 10, move all abilities under the AC heading in the abilities pane and remove the base class header, move all trainable abilities from that point forward under the AC header on the trainer.

3) Remove all references in the game to your base class that can be removed once you choose your AC.

4) Add a small quest line at max level that is AC specific, where they refer to your AC directly.

IMO this would make the choice more meaningful.

Yes you are correct. Not that you need me to point that out lol

Fair enough. Not insinuating anything by posting it...just wanted to present it if folks wished to discuss it or draw similarities.

No. Most companies care about the integrity of the game, even just a little. It's the reason why Blizzard has refused all these years, and why Bioware should continue to.

I think this movement would gain more traction if the PRO group got away from wanting to be able to respec so early into their toon's life.

It really is on average 4 hours of play time per planet.

Level 10 takes 4 hours to achieve for a slow poke. Level 16 takes 8 hours. Level 20 takes 12 hours. Level 24 takes 16 hours. Level 28 takes 20 hours. Level 32 takes 24 hours. So on and so forth. I see absolutely no justification to allow respec before you finish Act 1. If you are pre-Act 1 finale, delete and start over. I have no sympathy on this matter and neither do a lot of others.

In all honesty I think if it is allowed, following Act 2 is the most natural place to allow it. Everyone is told FOUR times when they select their AC that it is permanent. It is no ones fault but their own that they didn't read.

BUT inserting a conversion conversation between 2-3 gives the option to do it long before it impacts end-game, frames it within your story AND "ensures" that it is only used once. Still the slippery slope remains.

I've been an MMOer since SWG launched in 2003. Ya know, 18 months before WoW launched. I'm a total noob.

I've seen first hand what happens when MMOs change based on the wants of the highly vocal few. Look at all the changes SWG underwent based on the vocal minority. Look how well that turned out for the game and the player-base.

I was also a world creator and administrator for Neverwinter Nights from 2003-2007, so I have a little better insight than the average player as to balance issues and what "should" be done in an effort to improve quality of life.

"Integrity of the game." Could you express that a little more pompously?

You mentioned the key word: "game." Only 1 thing matters from the players' perspective: fun. Only 1 thing matters from BWEA's perspective: money. "Integrity" is wholly irrelevant.

I think this post pretty much sums up your level of understanding.

And that pretty much sums up yours.