ETA on Advanced Class change?

But see, that is actually incorrect.. Species or race has no bearing on this game.. The story is the same for a human Jedi and a Chiss Jedi.. Race doesn't effect story at all..

Having to level a new character to try a new class is a reality and a mechanic of many MMO's including this one.. Why should that rule be broken??

You are also not addressing a real fear.. Bioware allows it once to twice to appease their curiousity?? Does the rest of the community now have to wade through even more threads asking to remove the limit of doing it twice?? When is the community forced to live with their choice and when are they forced to live with the word permanent?? Like the game says..

Games should not be at the whim of the players.. Players should have to live within the rules and architecture of the game.. Games have rules for a reason.. I think this is one that we the players learn to respect..

Other than giving people a free 50 or 55 of another class without leveling.. This doesn't benefit anyone.. Especially Bioware..

Considering how this topic first started after Bioware caved on a way to change your spec in game during the beta..

The slippery slope fact is all we need..

Give an inch take a mile... I am sure you heard a few times in your life..

In case you haven't heard.. Your AC is your class.. That has been said over a year now.. It comes from Bioware..

Apples and oranges, race is purely cosmetic choice that changes nothing, except maybe how some people react to you. Changing class is changing most of your abilities, how you play (in major way, yes, there is a difference between healing and DPSing, but the basic playstyle, like range, used items (generator, focus, second weapon, etc), etc remain same), etc.
Advanced class should be, for all intents and purposes, your class, and it should not be possible to change. Race is not used anywhere in game statistics, and gives no bonuses, therefore, changing it changes nothing.

Now, I know you are claiming to be against changing, but you still insist on keeping this thread alive...

You seem to have misunderstood the concept of subjectivity. When I play a class story, species is perhaps one of the most fundamental choices I make, I wouldn't dream of using the customisation booth to alter species. On character creation I assumed this would be a permanent decision so I put a lot of thought into character appearance. However just because I have no use for the feature I'm not against others being able to change species.

Why shouldn't it? So many people decry SWTOR because it follows the path of WoW or some other MMO. WHat if SWTOR decided to be a little different. SWTOR placed story at the heart of their game, they put the full voice overs in, they had a large team of gifted writers craft stories that allow players to form an attachment to the character, companions and choices that are made. It makes far more sense for me that SWTOR would view an Advanced Class change as a higher grade of respecialisation, something that can be done but not anywhere, at anytime, for no cost.

I wouldn't impose a restriction on the possible number of times it could be done. Fear removed. Again, as long as it is restricted to a certain place be it a terminal on the players ship, a vendor on fleet or the home planet (like respeccing), has a reasonable cool down period (I have previously used one week as an example), and an associated cost to deter a high frequency (again I'd have an initial high cost per character to unlock the function and then a further moderate cost per change)

Rules change. If the argument for the change is well reasoned.

It is not a free anything. You are not gaining an additional character, you are gaining the ability to play the character in a slightly different way. Instead of being limited to just three options set by the three skill trees you have six options.
Where is your evidence that this wouldn't benefit anyone. There are as many posters turning up with a single post saying 'yes please' as there are saying 'No don't do it' but knowing how skewed forum populations can be with regards a vocal and entrenched minority this is meaningless. Only Bioware has the depth and breadth of metrics that would allow them to see the sort of playtimes and expenditure the average player spends on their character.

This option would offer little if anything to those gamers that space-bar plough through the quests, class based or otherwise, reducing time spent in story to a minimum in their race to endgame so they can start proper PvP or raiding. At the same time it takes nothing away from them.

It does however offer those players who invest more to their characters an extra string or two to their bow without having to go through exactly the same content. Or have a desire to see just how the other Advanced Class plays before they decide to sink a considerable chunk of the leisure time into levelling one. With eight unique class stories to play through already I see no reason to ask players to level up through the same story multiple times. It's something I intend to do, and have already started, but I realise I am in the fortunate position of having more game time than many.

Whether someone else switches their AC has zero impact on me, and I imagine zero impact on the game (with the proviso of the limitations I outlined) beyond allowing a certain portion of the player base a chance to refresh their interest in a character or switch over to a preferred playstyle.

Wrong.. You are getting a totally different character with an entirely different set of abilities.. It is a free character because you did not earn it.. You leveled a sage.. If you want a shadow then you must roll one and level it..

There are 16 classes in this game.. Not 8..

Someone having a god mode switch in an Op wouldn't effect you either.. That is false logic you are using.. There are always effects.. Just because you refuse to see them or consider them doesn't mean they aren't there..

They can refresh their play style by rolling another character.. Instead of asking Bioware to cut the number classes in half to appease laziness in their players.. Changing your class in this game is a bad idea.. It doesn't benefit bioware to allow people to be lazy.. You want to try out another class... Fine.. Roll that class..

Some times you just got to live with your own choices.. Nobody is so entitled to have everything given to them on a silver platter.. Nobody is so entitled that Bioware needs dramatically change to game so someone can look at the other class.. Leveling in this game is easy.. If someone it to lazy to level another character to see the other class, then I guess they didn't want to see it that bad..

I have both a shadow and sage.. Leveled them both up.. It fun.. But then I like playing the game.. I wish others did too.. Instead of looking for short cuts or anything that helps them not play the game..

I think LordArtemis' point was that a precedent has already been set that change of initial plans can change, not the specific game mechanics between species and class. But I'm sure they can point this out in a clearer manner than me

You use the example of Healing to DPS which is fine. Different kettle of fish if you consider Tank to DPS as that requires a full switch out of used items.
And the way you use your character can varymore in playing PvE or PvP. PvE stand still most of the time concentrate on perfect rotation, move out of AOE. PvP move around like a lunatic and respond as quickly as possible to the opposition. No disrespect to either side here as I dabble in both. Just pointing out that any considerations in changing playstyle of one AC to the other solely in PvE mode is less dramatic than the switch from playing the same AC in PvE or PvP.


I still fail to understand why class is placed on such a high pedestal? Just because other games do it this way? Because that's the way it's always been done?
Given the nature and investment of resources required to put in another class story I can't honestly see any on the immediate horizon. However it would be a more reasonable idea to consider the possibility of future Advanced Classes that slot into the existing Class structure.
For example ACs that use the animations from the other faction, ACs that are focused on a different weapon type, ACs that start to use a more hybrid variety of abilities (shock horror I know some folk would keel over at the thought of A bounty hunter having any force abilities available to them).
While some players would want to level a new character to explore these hypothetical new ACs many more would prefer to try them out or maybe just swap over.
Justification of this based on game mechanics is fine, and I can understand this viewpoint. I just don't have to agree with it. I think this option would bring more flexibility and choice into the hands of the average gamer and open up the possibilities of future expansion of ACs within the original class story.

And there was me thinking the best way of letting a thread die is to not respond and provoke more argument

They haven't set any precedent.. We knew in the beta that a barber shop element would be added.. The only change that has been made to the game that was not planned was Free to play.. Other than that nothing..

There is nothing to be pointed out.. Some people just don't have all the information.. Just like in the beta we talked about AC swapping as well.. A lot of changes were made to the game to prevent that from happening.. Not to mention a bunch of in game warnings that their choice was permanent.. Which of course now gets ignored by selective hearing..

A class is what makes all our characters somewhat different.. If there were no classes, then all our characters would be the same.. Our class defines our character.. To allow that to change diminishes the need for a class and what it's purpose is.. What is the point of a class if we all can just change it.. It will become as meaningless as our spec..

I don't know if you played WOW at all.. But WOW messed around with dual spec'ing.. They did the full job.. One button changed your gear, and your talent tree specs.. Pressing it again, changed you back.. There were even people that wanted triple spec'ing for the classes that could heal, tank, and DPS..

With the release of Mists of Panderia, WOW no longer has skill trees.. They still have a basic spec that you can change.. But nothing compared to the skill trees they used to have..

Class swapping needs to just be left alone.. Or would you prefer not having a class at all??

There are 8 unique classes in this game not 16 (the opposite faction are just mirror classes with different animations). I identify more with the class story than the Advanced class. I see the Advanced Class as little more than a choice in what equipment/skills to utilise to get the job done. Again no real difference than the three skill trees. However I realise that you probably don't want to have core tanking abilities available for use at the same time as you have core healing abilities and thus the need to separate the Healer/ Tank roles into separate ACs

I don't think it is. Having God mode allows someone to gather resources or gear that puts them at a direct advantage to other players. Changing from Powertech to Mercenary has no impact on my ability to gather resources or gear over any other Mercenary in the game.

I dislike your use of Lazy. It is not lazy to level a character to 55 and then want to see how the other AC plays before you decide to sink more time into actually levelling a character in that AC. It is not lazy to level the 8 unique class stories to max and not want to have to level a duplicate. It is not lazy to want to stick with a single character put have that classes skills and abilities at your fingertips (again with suitable restrictions).