ETA on Advanced Class change?

There is a difference between an apple and an orange, yet both are fruits.. Your point being??

There is a difference between a shadow and a sage, yet both are consular.. Your point again was??

Shadow and sage are your classes.. There are 16 classes in the game.. Not 8 classes..

Let's start off by being honest and not trying to stretch a truth in order to fit your desire for class changes. You may have one of each mirror AC. You do not have one of each AC as there are 16 AC's.

Even if you have one of each mirror AC or even one of each AC, not everyone who wants to change their class does. Allowing you to change your class would allow that person who has only ever played a smash monkey to change his class to juggernaut and make people's game play miserable as he fumbles about trying to gear and tank when he has never tanked before.

Sometimes that one person who may be over qualified to do something can't be allowed to do it in order to protect people from those that aren't qualified.

I appreciate the dialog.

I was thinking about ways to prevent abuse of the system if it was open to all levels. What if it was limited to a finite number of changes per account? You could change any AC into another at any point, but at one point you would run out of uses. Perhaps that would discourage FOTM switching and forced switching from guilds and the like.

Perhaps an account maximum of 6 switches?

I have already made my distaste for comparing 2 different games as if one should be precedent for another - clear, but if you wish to go that way - druid. tank, healer, melee dps and ranged dps. using different mainstat no less. boomkin (ranged dps variety of a druid) plays extremely differently from kitty (melee dps) and yet - same class.

the only class in TOR that has different armor rating depending on specialization is warrior/knight. everyone else wears the same armor, uses the same main stat.

your specialization is shown, once you chose it, yes, but it doesn't remove the fact, that you are still your base class. different class designs, not different classes. you can interpret that statement in many ways. including the way I'm interpreting, that advance classes are fundamentally different playstyles, even while being the same class.

and yes, if we got to pick out our class at character creation, this conversation might not be happening in all likelihood. if developers didn't say they were considering allowing AC change, this conversation might not be happening. but we're talking about what ifs. my what ifs are as valid as your what ifs, and trying to dismiss them out of hand just keeps us in this circular loop.

learning a new play style is learning a new playstyle.

I think there's more benefits than drawbacks to allowing AC change (at least with my preferred mode of - at any level, with no xp penalty but only twice per character with one month cd per change). so I'd rather address the drawbacks constructively - as in, how can we minimize or even remove their impact. which is what I've been attempting to do in my conversation with Lord Artemis.

My Juggernaut was a smash monkey. So is my Guardian. Guess what! Different AC (Juggernaut and Guardian) same playstyles.

So, yes, one could roll up one of each class and know all the classes. So the "You won't know the (advance) class" argument fails, because they could.

I could've leveled a Sage and an Assassin. Since I leveled an Assassin, I could easily change my Sage to a Shadow and nothing would be different.

And yes, the reason for allowing this is because they went the CLASS > ADV CLASS route. They went that route, so let people change it. And the other reason, more money. So many against this, yet seem gung ho with the "If it gives TOR more money it's okay!" for everything else.

There are eight classes (really four). There are sixteen "advanced classes" (really eight). As for "what is an advanced class vs a regular class?" - I don't think it matters. They've already announced that Advanced Class switching is probably coming (back during beta it was a hard "yes, you will be able to switch your advanced class" but lots of things were said way back then). They could retract adding it and if they do it will only be because of threads like these so full of hate and blind anger.

Why some players are vehemently opposed to this to the point of hurling insults and trolling this thread ad infinitum doesn't make any sense to me. I can understand forum arguments about balance or f2p crap or weak/buggy content or gfx or costume options even if I don't care about them. But this is such a non-issue it's not even funny? For those worried about getting stuck in a fp with an assassin tank that used to be a sorc dps... that's an invalid argument on so many levels and I frankly don't believe you if you say it is the main reason you are opposed to this. It's not p2w: you still have to level a character, plow through the story and get the gear. You don't suddenly have 2 characters. It's one step beyond spec resetting and it's very much in line with what is available in other games (including old muds, D&D, AC1, whatever - you name it).

Last note then I'm done with this thread: I've never heard of a game adding flexibility options for players losing subs and/or players because of it. I have seen angry posts in other forums and at least two grouchy youtube videos from people upset that they had to create and level a separate, second character (with identical stories/companions and very very similar mechanics) to switch between using 1 light saber and 2 light sabers.

I have indicated that there are two of LordArtemis' comprised list of suggestions which I find to be reasonable compromises, allowing those who have unique items no longer available in game to keep those items and still change their class. Those options would be 1 and 2. Both options would revert the character back to level 10, but that character would not lose any of the unique items they had acquired.

There is a difference between an apple and an orange, yet both are fruits.. Your point being??

There is a difference between a shadow and a sage, yet both are consular.. Your point again was??

Shadow and sage are your classes.. There are 16 classes in the game.. Not 8 classes..

I am not the troll here.. I am not the one lying about a post or claiming that someone edited a post because they aren't masture enough to just admit they missed it?? I am not childish enough to jump into a discussion that doesn't inolve me and lie about a post.. You want to see a troll?? Look at the people that fit those descriptions,.. You have to be pretty dang desperate to even accuse someone of editing a post.. I am in my 40's.. I have better things to do than to edit a post just to prove some internet wannabe wrong.. What about that really long posts where I addressed someone point by point.. Then in the very next post I was accused of not responding to their points?? Did I edit that post too?? Did I just magically make it appear out of no where to prove someone wrong?? You want to see a troll?? Go look in the mirror.. You aren't responding to anyone.. You are just a broken record saying the same thing over and over again.. If you can't support and qualify your views then you don't belong on a forum..

There is a large number of people that have made countless points, that the three of you have failed to respond to.. Instead resorting to lying and false accusations to do what ever you can to prove yourself right.. You will always be wrong when you use those tactics.. Seriously accusing someone of editing a post.. Now that is sad.. Desperate much??

I can see that the three of you are going to continue to troll this forum.. Do all you can to prevent serious discussion.. Make any attempt to insure the conversation is not productive.. You all don't want to have a serious debate.. If you did, you would read my posts and that of others.. Instead of parroting the same trash over and over again.. You would stop making childish accusations like editing a post.. Again?? What about the post where someone's points were addressed point by point.. Then I was accused of no responding to them and responding to their points?? Did I go back and edit that post because I knew I was going to be accused of not responding to their points?? If someone can miss a post of that size, (My points have not yet been responded to..) It makes sense that the smaller post was also missed.. It was not edited.. Some of us around here are adults.. Again you all need to stop trolling and grow up..

Let me know when you want to discuss this with the adults in an adult manner.. Otherwise keep doing what your doing..

My Juggernaut was a smash monkey. So is my Guardian. Guess what! Different AC (Juggernaut and Guardian) same playstyles.