ETA on Advanced Class change?

I have a lvl 55 shadow tank and in the process of leveling a sage.. A lot of people that I know have leveled both AC's.. I know a lot of people that have both commandos and Vanguards.. A lot of people have taken the time and made the effort.. Including myself..

Everyone else should do the same.. Instead of whining here..

The most ignored people in this forum are those that are arguing against AC swapping..

Take the posts above.. Where have you all read those arguments before?? I mean.. It isn't like those words haven't already been said by myself and countless others.. Yet constantly ignored.. You are right Lord.. It does say a lot about a person by how they handle themselves in a debate.. When countless people are making the same points over and over.. Still this thread continues to grow.. You just have to wonder about some people..

I do see where you are coming from, I think, but at the same time... certains AC's, not to mention specs are already underrepresented. and the reason for that is that they don't perform as well as other options. that issue cannot be fixed with restrictions, simply because leveling a character is fairly easy, and people who chase flash of the month, just reroll. I've seen it happen time and again. the solution should be balancing specs and advanced classes better.

learning alternate specs, well... different people play differently and have different preferences.. I mean, one of my guildies has 3 marauders, and plays them identically. you'd think one would be enough in terms of playstyle, since you can just respec and experiment, and yet, they have 3. for the sole reason of enjoying the class, both playing it and leveling it. and well, role playing with it. I've seen other people with similar approach to playing. then there's people who will try everything at least once (I'm one of those). and yet again - there are people who stick to their preferred character and don't much move past it. people tend to stick to their preferences, and there's nothing wrong with it.

I can see fantastic raid applications to AC swap though, if it's treated as a way to switch specs. a fight that can be done with a single tank, and that's rough on melee dps. or fights that work better for melee dps. not having to switch out people, because you are having trouble progressing through a particular fight - because you need more AoE heavy dps, and all you have is single target... unless they switch AC's, adopting to the fights, to make it more doable and continuing to play with people you want to be playing.

today, due to last minute issues, we had trouble fielding our usual saturday 16 man. so eventually we ended up running 8 man. luckily enough we had enough alts to fill the roles that's gone missing and it was a bit bumpier than normal.. but imagine if it could be done on our mains instead...

there are drawbacks. of course there are drawbacks. I could see some guilds demanding for the ability to switch AC to be a requirement for their raiders, rather than an option. I could see people abusing it, to roll need on ALL gear (though lets be fair, they already do, its just right now its for alts and companions)

and to be perfectly honest? I'm not 100% sold on idea, mainly because I don't know how to prevent all the possible problems, or even if I see all the possible problems. gamers can be pretty genius at finding loopholes and exploits.

I support at least seriously considering it however, because I personally like flexibility (and ac swap in theory would add more flexibility, not less), and because we won't really know the full effect - good and bad, unless we try. at least on pts. if it goes badly, they can always cancel it and not add it to live build.

and my vanguard can wear both, in fact, when she goes dps - she wears "commando" gear, because dps gear is the same. it works that way for all base classes. look at agent gear for example. there's gear with accuracy? and gear without accuracy. its all agent gear, it all looks the same, and the main difference is that gear without accuracy is meant for healing operatives. snipers and stabby operatives? use the same gear.
in fact - there isn't actually separate commando and vanguard gear, last I checked - even the names of the sets are not class based. there's tanking gear, healing gear and dps gear. 3 sets.

even warriors/knights. I mean, they have armor restrictions, but a lot of warrior players I know don't really look at the shell. they are in it for the mods. and now that set bonuses are attached to armorings (not to mention a mess of itemization that we have this tier)? you could almost say bioware encourages us to mix and match

You really can't take a hint, can you.

What, no demands to explain or defend my views? No fist stomping demanding me to post proof you will ignore? No accusing me of being Pro AC change? Why not? It's all you've done almost the entire thread.

You can't seriously expect you and I to have a conversation after all of your blatant trolling.

You and I have NOTHING TO DISCUSS. Get it in your head. I have zero interest in talking about ANYTHING with someone like you. Period.

I agree that many ACs still need quite a bit of work. I could name a few I think need help, but I think that's better for other pros...I'm not that good of a player to give an opinion on that sort of thing.

I just wonder if allowing AC change, and the choices folks would make as they gravitate toward those more desirable ACs might cause those ACs to get much less attention from the devs. It might not be a sensible fear, I admit.

3 Marauders...wow hehe. Yea, I agree people stick with what they like.

There are sensible reasons to allow it, this is one of them I think. I'm just not sure the pros outweigh the cons IMO.

Hmm. There you go. That is an example of one of my fears. Especially if folks start demanding other folks reAC to what they want you to be.

Well, I'm worried we will see this eventually based on a recent comment a dev made, so I think this discussion could at least put the breaks on free for all AC swapping...at least I hope.

I just wish it could stay the way it is. I realize, though, many things are changing and lots of folks seem to want this.

That is an awesome post..

You talk about flexibility?? Can't the same flexibility be accomplished by rolling the other AC?? I have a shadow tank now.. A sage coming up fast thanks to dbl XP weekends.. Couldn't someone just change toons?? As opposed to changing AC, then changing gear, and of course spec.. To me it would sound easier just to logout and back in on another toon.. Sure it is more work at first to level the other AC.. The other issue is that not swapping AC's eliminates the need to carry additional sets of gear around.. You won't have an additional bank.. You won't have an additional pack.. Rolling another AC gives you that extra bank, the extra pack, not to mention the extra body to wear all the extra gear..

You are also ignoring the issue that if they allow this once or twice.. We will never hear the end of it.. I mean you are already talking as if we can do it at will.. One of the biggest fears that many people have is the 'Give people an inch and they will take a mile.' issue.. Bioware allows it once or twice and we all won't hear the end of it.. Even if Bioware is firm about how this once or twice is it.. After that, your AC is permanent.. Sure.. Like it is now right??

There is nothing wrong with some restrictions in a game.. PacMan was in a maze remember.. (If you are to young for PacMan, I am sorry.. ) He couldn't just go any way he wanted to eat his dots.. He had to live within the confines of the maze.. Same with Mario Bros.. That game had restrictions.. WOW has restrictions.. Every MMO on the market today has restrictions.. All games have restrictions.. We as players need to live within those restrictions..

Would we be having this discussion if our AC was chosen at lvl 0 during character creation?? I believe that the answer is most likely no.. And if the answer is no.. Then there is no argument for AC swapping.. Not that there really was to begin with..

What about the integrity of the classes?? Would being able to swap AC's diminish the value of the class?? The entire point of having a class is to make the characters different.. If we start allowing characters to swap classes, then what is the point of having a class??

Again, you have a very good post..

Thanks for that post.. I just wanted to know which one of is civil.. Now I know.. Please though.. Keep being a jerk and fist pounding.. You are good at it.. As for trolling?? Well.. I am the one responding to people and not being a jerk.. You on the other hand.. Well.. Nevermind.. You probably wouldn't understand anyways..

As for what I expect?? I expect you to act like an adult and not spoiled child.. I accused you of being bias and pro AC because the way you post and how rude you are to those that are against it says otherwise.. If you were truly neutral on this issue then you would be embracing both sides of this issue.. But you are not.. You are barely interested in the arguments against.. You never respond to them.. You don't even try to see the other side of the issue.. And now you are just resorting to being rude and obnoxious..

If you don't want to talk to me, that is fine.. But do us all a favor will you?? Grow up..

there are still 4 classes per faction - 4 stories. that's the point.

gearing a single character, even for multiple roles is ALWAYS faster than gearing several. in part because of com purchases supplementing drops. and in part because fielding multiple raid teams, setting up extra raid times is extremely challenging, vs finding a time slot for a single run per operation per week. there's only so many hours in a day for most of us, so we end up picking and choosing which characters to focus on. in case of our guild? we try to focus on the characters we progress through hard modes with.

sure some gear can be transferred over with legacy shells. and we do that. but things like relics, implants, earpieces, and barrels from offhands? cannot.

cannot transfer coms either- precious, precious ultimate coms.

there's one single advantage of running operations on alts vs sticking to same mains. and that's' the quest rewards from doing operation the first time (specifically - exotic mats that are otherwise rare drops and cost an arm and a leg on GTN). but that one time? is all you really need.

some restrictions are good. yet others are arbitrary.

you can still have alts and all those extra banks with AC swap. you still carry extra sets of gear right now, without AC swap. for some people its pve dps set, pve tanking/healing set/ and pvp set. why do they stick to the same character for all their playing? because that's the character they prefer. because which character they play? matters to them.

something that I have mentioned multiple times. sorcerer healer may be my main, but I have 14 alts. both factions. all AC's (many doubled across factions - for instance I have vanguard and a powertech, I have sage and sorc, scoundrel and operative, gunslinger and sniper) that's just how I like to play. I've been playing since launch though (mainly saying it to reiterate why I ended up with this many alts - i have been playing long enough)

but not everyone likes to play this way. not everyone likes replaying stories. heck, some people like the class, but barely made it through the story, so to reroll is pretty much not an option.

the point is not to reject the change outright out of fear, and try to enforce that rejection on everyone. the point is to at least consider it and see if those fears are justified. see from actual experience. that's why we have PTS after all - to test things.

If I am sure of anything it's that you of all people shouldn't give ANYONE this advice.

There is no reason to be insulted Majik. I don't like you. I don't like your posting style. I don't like your post history. I don't like your constant trolling. I REALLY don't like the fact you ignore anything that proves you wrong.

But that isn't the end of the world. What I think means nothing. You certainly do not need my approval or my permission to speak your mind.

If you change your post style (the last few posts were better) than that's great.

But I have to say...I'd compare my post history to yours any day of the week. You made some serious mistakes you simply can't erase.

1) you accused more than one person of being pro AC when they were not.
2) you directly insulted more than one member in this thread.
3) you posted quotes in which you changed words to make them mean what you wanted them to mean. When you were called on it and the proof of the real post was posted, you ignored the proof.
4) you demeaned respected members of the community, and then used very old information to back up your views instead of admitting your mistake.

It is unfortunate...because I am embarrassed to say you and I are on the same side. But asking me to defend the very contentions that I do not agree with was the last straw. I don't see anyone asking you to defend any contentions the pro side have made, nor is anyone accusing you of being a pro AC change member. Yet you have done exactly that to more than one member.

Your behavior has been deplorable. The evidence is littered all over this forum. Me, on the other hand, I have had many good conversations with the Pro AC change folks. Can you say the same?

You are an embarrassment to the Anti AC change movement. If you have accomplished anything it is that you have weakened our stance and legitimacy in this discussion.

I don't like you or Hizoka...that's it...but at least Hizoka respected my wish to stop quoting my posts. That demonstrates a certain level of maturity and control and I have to respect that. You can't seem to do that.

If I see an actual change in your posting behavior I MIGHT start talking to you again.

Until then we have nothing further to discuss.

I can actually sympathize with those folks that get tired of running through the same story again. Especially some of the less enjoyable ones.

I for one ran the Agent story three times...IMO the best storyline in the game, but that's debatable naturally.

I would be open to some kind of PTS test or poll to gauge how the community would react.