ETA on Advanced Class change?

that's the thing. they never did. they said they consider them to be fundamentally different in design and this IS true, they are, but they never came out and said - we have 16 classes in this game and each AC is individual class. YOU are the ones that keep claiming that, interpreting their statement to mean what you want it to mean.

instead.

we have this. explore the classes page

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes

even when you click through to each class there's a general description of base class. nowhere does it say that advanced class is an individual class. impression that you are given is that you get these 8 classes to chose from, 4 per side and then you can chose how to specialize them further. tier gear comes out? its presented as base class sets. you are told that your ac is final, but nowhere you are told that you just switched a class - its presented as choosing specialization.

which, lets face it - is not that much different from choosing different talent trees.

so the permanence of AC? is entirely arbitrary and allowing it to change will impact very little.

"but game mechanics!" you keep saying.

ever tried switching to healing after leveling dps? what about switching to tanking? what about the other way around? all these changes the game currently allows at will. unlimited amount of times. completely free as a subscriber. and with one time fee? you can even respec without going to the trainer.

healing is a fundamentally different role from dps. tanking is extremely different from dps with only common thread being - you hurt things until they die. so we merely, currently have an arbitrary limitation that tells us - you can switch between 2 roles, but not all 3. yes. arbitrary.

switching advanced class - still keeps you the class you chose at character creation. its a branch out.

as to your "no you" claim. well... pot meet kettle.

One can certainly say AC change is a class change. That much is reasonable, at least based on everything that Bioware has indicated.

Bioware has had plenty of opportunities to say otherwise on many occasions but to my knowledge has not done so. Not to mention the fact that they have very clearly said on more than one occasion that they see your AC as a fundamental class design....It doesn't say verbatim it's a class, Ill concede that as I have in the past. But I think it pretty strongly suggests it.

Strong indication it is at least looked at like a class, at least in Bioware's eyes.

The idea that it is a class or not a class is not the core issue IMO. Yes, I loath the idea of giving the AC choice even less meaning, but that doesn't mean I'm going to shut the door on the idea.

If....IF there is going to be AC change in the future I would like to see it with what I consider common sense restrictions. I have much less problem with it if it is very early after you make the first choice, to allow folks that have a "whoops" or "didn't know this AC was this bad" moment to correct it quickly.

I just really can't get behind a late game change, even with restrictions....that doesn't mean I'm not willing to discuss it, I just haven't personally seen any compelling....note I say compelling, not valid....compelling reasons to change my mind yet.

The reasons I posted against the idea of AC change still pretty much apply IMO. Well, I'm not so worried about FOTM if it is early game, so that is one that pretty much go away with that choice.

It's just hard for me to get behind an idea that changing what was meant as a meaningful choice would be so beneficial as to stand above the negatives.

This is just my opinion on the matter. I'm still open to listen.

It is obvious you spent a lot of time cutting and pasting the post above.. Are you ever going to include something that is actually important or just what you think the issue is??

This is why you are bias.. You keep posting this stuff as if there are a lot of people talking about it.. All the suggestions above are crap for a reason that is oddly not included on your cons list..

What about the integrity of a class?? Wouldn't swapping classes kind of defeat the point of having a class?? Nobody wants to talk about WOW and how they no longer have talent trees.. Or did anyone even notice that?? WOW has no talent trees.. They really have no spec, at least not in the sense of what we call a spec.. This is a product of dual spec'ing. It made the idea of having a spec pointless because we could change anytime we wanted.. Some classes could go from tanks to heals to deeps, right there in the middle of a raid..

The other issue you are ignoring is, if Bioware caves on a single swap or just two?? What makes you think these threads will end there?? They will continue until peeps can swap at will and before long, Bioware will have to do something drastic to rebuild and separate the classes.. Like Blizzard did with their specs.. Every 15 levels you get a single point.. You then can choose from 3 talents.. 15 levels later you get another point and have to choose.. That is the new talent tree..

So while you cut and paste like a broken record.. Why don't you do us all a favor and put some thought into your posts.. Do some research.. Ponder this issue.. Because it isn't as simple as people like to think it is.. Allowing Class Swapping can do some real harm to this game and anyone that plays it.. Blizzard is bleeding players and has been for a while now.. Nobody that I have talked to that plays WOW likes the new system.. But you know.. Blizzard had to do something.. They really had no specs anymore.. I would prefer to keep my classes here.. As should everyone else..

No offense dude, but you really need to look beyond this issue and look at the big picture.. You have seen me say there is no reason to allow AC swapping.. Well.. There isn't.. You should consider that.. There isn't a point to compromise about this either.. Why should something be allowed for no reason?? Do you really think Bioware is going to make a dramatic change to their game for no reason?? It is pointless to talk about compromise when nobody has come up with a viable reason.. It has been mentioned before.. Why would bioware make it so people didn't have to level up another character to play another class?? Wouldn't allowing AC swapping be a loss in content?? Bioware is already struggling with content as it is.. They don't need to do anything that takes more out of the game.. I never see you talk about any of these things.. Which again is why I say you are bias.. You don't want to look at the issue in a serious and intelligent way.. You don't want to look at it from Bioware's point of view.. You just want to paste your little post and watch everyone talk about that.. Well... Sorry.. You are missing the point.. Again, no offense..

oh. my god.

you are seriously behind.

sorcs started needing accuracy with 2.0. do look it up, dear.

all dps need accuracy now. its a running complaint among dps agents (in my guild they are mostly snipers), that most basic gear they can buy has alacrity, instead of accuracy that they actually need so its difficult to hit cap, unless you craft/buy crafted mods.

and honey? learning a new playstyle is learning a new playstyle. but at least many of the abilities are familiar, since you use them as both AC's.

edited to add

I went to the class forums just to get the information for you and oh look - they are again separated by basic class, with subsections for AC.

but still - by basic class. isn't that interesting http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=13

anyways, here's a theorycrafting thread for you, since I have a feeling you will continue insisting that I'm wrong, unless someone else tells you otherwise.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=627473

Take your own advice. The post RIGHT ABOVE YOUR POST is an exact example of why you need to really take a step back and get a hold on this "ready, fire, aim" problem you have.

Not to mention the fact that you have been told more than once that you and I have nothing to discuss. I hope I don't have to tell you again.

I added your suggestions to the list. Next time just post them without the quote, the diatribe and the attempt to control the discussion.

New pro and con list with suggested additions.

PROS

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.
2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.
3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.
4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.


CONS

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.
2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.
3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.
4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.
5) This will likely further demean AC choice.
6) Could cause FOTM issues.
7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.
8) Allowing AC change would perhaps damage the integrity of the entire class system by making it meaningless.
9) If AC changes are allowed it could open the gates for more and more changes until it is a spec swap.

So then why don't sages need accuracy?? For that matter, Shadows which are mele also don't need accuracy.. Shadows are Assassins.. Which also don't need accuracy..

Perhaps you should look up dear??

Just an FYI.. I have a dedicated level 55 Shadow tank.. One of the biggest complaints that tanks of our class have in the gear is that a lot of it has accuracy that we don't need, and a lot of it has def, which we don't need much of.. We need a lot of shield and absorb.. Which is sadly absent from our gear.. I have had to use augments to get those stats..

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...d-950.html#IIa

Now.. Both Shadow and Assassins have some mele skills.. Some are pretty nice.. Having said that, I have only a little accuracy that has come on my gear.. Some of it I got rid of.. But I have never missed on a boss.. I have tanked SaV.. Again never missed.. I will agree that a little accuracy may not be a bad idea.. But I will gladly trade it for a tank stat.. I currently have about 2% or less on accuracy..

You are right.. We have nothing to discuss... You don't want to discuss anything.. Don't want to respond to anything and don't want to read anyone else's posts.. Especially those that require you to defend your position.. As for controlling anything?? Looked in the mirror lately?? I don't recall anyone electing you to be the caretaker of the pros and cons.. Even though you are missing almost all the ones that actually matter..

I knew it. you will continue insisting I'm wrong against all evidence.

sages need accuracy.

go to the thread i linked. if you'd like to see this information for more classes? you are free to look through class forums. I'm going to go back to playing now, because you are no longer worth my time. dear.

Shenanigans.