ETA on Advanced Class change?

I am biased. I do not want AC change. I try and prevent that opinion from affecting the discussion.

I made it pretty clear you and I have nothing further to discuss. That means do not quote my posts. Feel free to comment on them, but you and I are no longer having a conversation.

If you ever decide to stop presenting opinions as facts, painting people as pro AC change when they are con or generally attempting to control the debate perhaps we can talk.

But I can tell you that no matter how hard you try we will discuss this peacefully. There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent that. But you can certainly continue to try.

If I were you I would not care. My opinion is about as important as navel lint. Stop giving it more importance than it deserves.

Im going to do something here i rarely do....speak for others. I think I'm pretty accurate in the following view.....

Guys, people like this community member are NOT representative of the Anti AC change group. We are not trolls...we do not want to force our views on others.

I expect most of the Anti AC change folks are just as reasonable as the Pro AC change folks. I think we can all discuss this logically and peacefully if we simply ignore the trolling.

Do not allow anyone else, including me (especially me, trust me, I'm an idiot), make up your mind for you. You have a right to either support or not support AC change.

Do not let these extreme pro or con folks intimidate you. Do not allow them to stop you from expressing your opinion by spreading falsehoods, being combative, or posting false or inaccurate information. They know exactly what they are doing....they are trying to muscle out those that want to discuss this. They want you to agree with them, and if you do not they will find any way possible to try and discredit you.

They do not want reason...reason is their enemy. They want you froth at the mouth as they do. Do not allow them to sway you.

But trust me when I say that a troll on either side of the debate has NO reputable position or reputation in this forum...just check their post histories. Compare how much they contribute compared to how much they simply berate others.

Then you will see whats going on here.

I've seen it plenty of times before.

There is only one response for trolling.....shenanigans. Respond enough times with that and they will eventually give up.

To bring it back to base, here are the current proposals discussed in this thread.


Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 3

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 4

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 7

No AC change allowed.



And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.


PROS

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.
2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.
3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.
4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.


CONS

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.
2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.
3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.
4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.
5) This will likely further demean AC choice.
6) Could cause FOTM issues.
7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.


There may be more, if others want to add pros and cons I can compile lists for both and add it to the post block for the proposals. Only serious, logical, non-insulting pros and cons please.

If I have missed anyone else's proposal or wish please let me know so I can correct or add it.

Good point. I was just responding to what was being brought up to me.

Valid point nonetheless.

There are a lot of other view points to discuss!

Which is a class change.. Why do you try so hard to ignore that fact?? Your AC is your class.. Simple as that..

^^^

Now that is funny!!!

You see dude.. There is no logic to this part.. Bioware has stated that they consider the AC to be our class.. That is all you need to know and there is nothing to dispute.. You do not have the authority to challenge Bioware on what is or isn't a class.. If you look at the game mechanics, our AC is our class.. Our talent trees are determined by our AC or class.. So there is nothing to argue here..

Yet I am sure you will continue with your denial.. 'I know you are but what am I?' is a simple argument and you are sticking with it aren't you??

Consider the fact that there are no rules as to what is or isn't a class, there is no ruling body that defines a class for all games.. We have to live with what the game publisher says.. That is our ruling body for this game.. Your AC is your class.. Any argument to the contrary is baseless for the following reasons.. No sanctioned rules that would work across multiple games and no ruling body sanctioned to rule over multiple games.. Absent of a formal set of rules as to what defines a class.. We are left with the definition given to use by Bioware.. That is just the end of it.. Reguardless of what you may think..

Are you reading impaired?? I never said that at all.. Go back and reread my post again please...

Someone that levels a sage to 55 should not get a level 55 shadow if they AC swap.. They should be forced to level the shadow.. If you are going to change your class, then you should at least level that class..

Now what about that do you not understand?? It is pretty simple if you ask me.. Try not to twist my words this time.. It really weakens your own integrity.. It is obvious that what I am saying is different than what you said above.. My previous posts will also reflect that...

Now it's just a matter of opinion, so really this is all...I vote yes. I vote no. And no meaningful discussion can happen.

What exactly does rerolling ACs hurt? Nothing. I have 8 ACs going now. I could have 1 of each AC, so it wouldn't matter if I switched ACs as I know all the ACs (since rep and empire are just mirrors of each other).

So, the reason not to, is really, what, "Learn to play your class?"

That's already said to people and they can't reroll their AC.

Allowing this would...

1) Make more players happy than upset.

2) Make TOR MORE MONEY which judging by the various dye threads and datacube threads makes many players happy.

3) Hurts no one.

I say we just remember #2...TOR GETS MORE MONEY!

In other words.. You can't deal with the point I maid so you are going to play dumb and act as if I actually said someone asked for that..

Seriously dude?? I never said anyone asked for it.. But if people are going to play the 'How does it effect you?' argument.. I am going to nail them with that.. How does an optional god mode button effect them?? If you can't intelligently respond to a point someone makes, maybe you shouldn't respond.. Just saying...

That is the problem with logic to those that don't understand it.. It can be used in multiple ways and turned against you..

See this is the problem.. You really don't seem to know what your are talking about.. You are talking about Accuracy on a Sorc.?? Really?? You want to be the laughing stock of everyone?? Put accuracy on a sorc.. Of any spec.. You are either a healer or a ranged DPS.. You have no need for accuracy..

So.. As for your example?? Well?? You need to learn your classes a little better..

The point you are attempting to make actually helps the no AC swapping crowed.. If you can't handle playing just under another spec.. Going from heals to ranged DPS.. How on earth are you going to know how to play a tank or mele dps as an Assassin?? You better just stick to a sorc and roll an assassin and learn it the right way.. Not to mention Assassins can stealth.. It is an entirely different play style than a sorc.. They have about as much in common as an apple and an orange.. But at least they are both still fruits..