ETA on Advanced Class change?

Hahahhahahahaha go ahead if it makes you feel better but anyone with any inclination of intelligence knows that independent news sources are not official talks and should never be quoted as facts. I have stated this to you over and over, if it hasn't came from the Q and A talks which is held here on the official website its bogus news and not in the near future plans.

Roger that and good luck to you =)

To you to. Don't let this little fracas between us stop you from posting your opinion in this thread. All voices need to be heard.

It never does and sometime forum wars can be fun

It was entertaining I don't get to engage in good wholesome forum PVP that often. I don't like doing it with trolls, but your post history changed my mind....you have a decent one. You obviously feel pretty passionately about this though.

I don't know if you read my post history in this thread, but I'm not in the "for AC change" column. The best option, IMO, is to leave it as it is. I even made some suggestions to make the choice more meaningful that Bioware could implement to make this whole argument moot.

If I had to choose one option, I would choose option 1 in the options list I posted a few pages back. I have all viewpoints there that I am aware of, including no restrictions and no change allowed. Take a peek.

Here it is


Option 1 - This is the one I am currently willing to begrudgingly support

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 3

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 4

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 7 - This is the one that would be my preference, though I'm reasonably open to option 1

No AC change allowed.

I felt it was only fair to add in the "do not allow AC changes ever" if I am going to include the "allow AC change with no restrictions".

If I have missed anyone else's proposal or wish please let me know so I can correct or add it. I would also like to list the players that support the particular options listed under the option if that's ok with you guys.

That way we can clearly see who supports what. It's up to all of you if you want me to add you that way.

One last post and then I have to call it a night...my view on what they could do to make the AC choice more meaningful and pretty much put this whole argument to bed, so to speak.

1) Come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that an AC IS A CLASS. Period. Leave no room for doubt.

2) Remove all base class abilities when you choose your AC, the ability to wear base class armor, etc. Provide AC abilities and armor from that point forward. The only exception would be adaptive gear.

To be clear, that means your base class goes poof...not more training in the base class, all base class abilities are gone. Now the only training you receive is in the advanced class you chose.

Edit: Just delete the base class in your abilities panel and move all abilities into the AC column instead. Put all abilities in the trainer under your AC. No more abilities listed to train under your base class.

3) Make sure all listings, all references, everything (except perhaps class story, nothing can be done about that now) is changed to refer to you by your NEW CLASS....the AC you chose.

4) Work on and release, some time in the future, an short AC quest line that brings real meaning to the role you chose. Perhaps a bit of VO work where they directly call you by your new class name.

LordArtemis, removing basic class is downright stupid.
If I use real military as an example, all soldiers are still soldiers, they still have the same basic training, and they still train those basic skills to be better at them, or just to keep their skills from deteriorating.
Now, a real life soldier can choose a specialization he want to focus on (in our case, AC). For example, he can apply to be a sniper, gaining access to some specialized training. But he still remain a soldier, with all he learned in basic training, and he hones those skills along with sniper skills. And people still refer to him a a soldier, or by his rank.

Now, the game refers to you in all stats as your advanced class (everywhere except PvP scoreboard, something for BW to consider changing). Guild window - advanced class. Character selection screen - advanced class. Friend list - advanced class. Class icon - advanced class. Class shown on selecting - advanced class.
The only thing that does not differentiate your specialization is the storyline (see above, you are still a soldier)

Have any of you people played RO before? In that game, after you finish your first class levels (50 levels), you get to choose a second class: http://wiki.lumina-ro.com/images/0/08/Job_tree_girl.gif

You keep all the skills/passives you invested in during leveling your first class. The second class unlocks new skills and passive abilities. For example, both the monk and the priest start as acolytes, just like commando and vanguard start as a trooper. But while a monk is a melee fighter, the priest is, for the most part, a long range caster/healer class. The stats you should invest in and gameplay are completely different (unless you're making a melee priest).

So, the only difference we get is that we change classes after only 10 levels, rather than 50. But in that game I never saw any requests for people to be able to change from monk to priest (and getting to level 99 took months of grind).

Why is this game so much different that completely different classes should be inter-changeable. Sage/Sorcerer and Shadow/Assassin have literally nothing in common. Sage is a long range DPS caster/healer, Assassin is a stealth melee DPS/tank. They are, for all intents and purposes different classes, though they do both inherit a couple skills from their prerequisite class, the Consular/Inquisitor, and have the same signature armour. Commando/Vanguard are very in this too. Like someone said, "AC are an arbitrary distinction". Well, so are base classes. The only difference between a sage and a commando is that the sage gets their big aoe later on, and they have a larger resource pool that regenerates slower. How is that not an arbitrary distinction? :P


As I said, I hope this stays permanent, and I hope we get more branches later on. Lineage 2 had an awesome class tree, where human fighters were split into 6 classes by level 40 (1 rogue, 1 archer, 1 polearm aoe warrior, 1 single target dps duelist, 1 tank type, 1 warrior with pets), each having their own advantages and weaknesses. And that's just the human race, each race had their own classes effectively emulating our skill trees. The amount of variety you had was almost as insane as in RO, even though L2 has no stat builds/skill trees.

Since SWTOR doesn't let you allocate stats and lets you simply learn almost all of your active skills at the trainer for a small fee, I believe having more branches later on, similar to L2, and not be able to swap between them freely would add to the variety in this game (because most people only have a single "main") by having more differently specialized classes. And since we have (unlike L2) 3 distinct trees inside a class, we really don't need more than one other branch (for a total of 16 classes and 48 different playstyles).

In my opinion, variety is the best thing an MMO can have. People who only play one character regularly won't feel like they already have 20 other people that are doing exactly the same thing in their guild, and people who play multiple characters get more decisions on how to play the classes they actually like (I find snipers/gunslingers boring, but I would play two different kinds of sawbones medics), but don't have the play the exact same class twice because they want a commando and a merc.

For example, commandos at level 40 choose a second AC between an aoe specialized and a single target specialized commando. Grenadiers and machinegunners? One of them gets more aoe dps, more aoe heals, more aoe buffs. The other gets more single target DPS abilities, better full auto, the ability to heal a single target faster, single target buffs. But they both retain their basic abilities they had as a commando+trooper. The gameplay difference between the two would be miles apart, while they still had similar skills for the most part.

A Sith Inquisitor switching from Assassin to Sorc effectively causes the same character to switch roles from tank to healer.

Thanks for the touch of class.