ETA on Advanced Class change?

Just for those that like to make up fiction and call it fact, here you go.


Spoken by Daniel Erickson, a Dev that no longer works for the company, and he did NOT SAY THEY WERE INDIVIDUAL CLASSES. He said they seem them as FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS.

You can assume what that means if you like. I think it means they see them as similar to classes, different enough from each other to be treated like a class....which I agree with.

He doesn't say they are distinct classes, they were designed that way, etc.

Oh, but wait, here is another exact quote....and a more recent one at that, from a CURRENT STAFF MEMBER....



Note that DS does not say in any way shape or form that ACs are classes. Nor does he say they are not. But verbatum, they have had serious talks about offering it and it will likely happen eventually.

So here are the only true facts based on both quotes and other direct Bioware quotes posted in this thread.

1) Bioware sees ACs as fundamentally different class designs. There is no way of knowing if the current dev team has the same view, but it is likely.
2) Bioware has had serious talks recently recently about offering AC change, and at least one dev believes this will likely happen eventually.
3) AC choice is currently a permanent choice. Players receive warnings to this effect.
4) You are not required to choose an AC. You can play all the way to level 50 without choosing one (haven't seen evidence of level 55, so I can not state this as fact.
5) At one time, for several months, Bioware intended to allow AC change. This was before launch.
6) Bioware has called ACs roles or playstyle choices on more than one occasion. They have never specifically called them a class to my knowledge.

These are the only facts that are irrefutable. Multiple posts have been provided to prove it.

Now, for my opinion.......

I believe one can view AC's as class designs since they are different enough from each other...so I label them as a class, though I recognize that is not set in stone. It is just my opinion.

I believe that allowing AC change with no restrictions would have detrimental effects on the game which I will not repeat here. Allowing an early change would have a much lower impact, and I would be willing to support that option. However, I would prefer, If I had a say in the matter (I do not) that it remains as it is for now.

There is still room to discuss the issue for anyone that wishes to do so IMO.

Hopefully we can get back to the discussion at hand.

I am curious to know if anyone has reached level 55 without choosing a class. I know some folks posted a few links...I will look for them, but if they could be reposted I would appreciate it.

So, at this point I assume there are a few compromise models, not the only ones mind you, and not the last word on the matter, but here are the ones I am aware of that have been mentioned most often....

This is the one I am currently willing to begrudgingly support

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP is uneffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

This is another that has been mentioned

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

And yet another

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - 7 day cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

And the final one I have seen

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

If there are any other proposals for consideration, please let me know.

...and yet you try and control what people can or can not discuss. How is that any different?

Unless you are trying to be purposefully combative.

I select need for everything. They should just remove the buttons altogether. I need everything.

but..


he's switching to dps either way. he's STILL not tanking? or are you saying that he's useless unless he plays a role he might not be interested in playing anymore (considering he's switching to dps? )

or if AC switches are not permanent, what would stop him from switching back to jugg and tanking, other than personal lack of desire (in which case, just because he's capable of tanking and cannot switch to Mara, doesn't mean he WOULD be tanking)

also, maras are not useless. on the contrary. dps in general can make or break the group and good dps is just as important as good tank or healer.

to reiterate. if people are forced into a role instead of choosing a role - its not fun for anyone involved and games should be fun.

P.S. back in a day, world of warcraft actually had class specific stuff. quests, mini stories and the like. nowadays - its all homogenized. SWTOR is NOT World of warcraft. and in TOR, class selection begins with a story. not advanced specialization? story. a story that you can finish without picking out advanced specialization at all. yes, its been done. so no, advanced specialization, advanced class? doesn't define classes in TOR. story does.

1. no, switching advanced classes in TOR is not like switching from warrior to rogue in WoW, and I explained why. story. TOR is not WoW. its a different game. and classes revolve mainly around story. story is the uniting factor. story can be finished without ever picking an advanced class. you can make it to lvl 55 without ever picking advanced class. and the only thing that truly changes? is a number of skills you have access to. that's it.As has been stated before, the same story is shared by two DIFFERENT CLASSES. You choose your story line at creation and your CLASS at level 10 or whenever you choose your AC. Yes, you can choose your class at a later time, or not at all, but you do not gain access to any class specific skills until you choose your class.

2. your last sentence answers your own question. people pick out their class originally for variety of reasons, but for the first 10 levels? you are just warrior. the way your specialization is even set up, is merely a part of the story. it changes your playstyle, but it doesn't fundamentally change your class. you are still sith warrior, or sith inquisitor, or agent, etc etc. See number 1.

your character login screen tells you that's what you are. it doesn't specify marauder or juggernaut. it says sith warrior. Check your guild list, how many members with a class of sith warrior do you see? I'm betting not too many. I'm betting that you will see a lot of juggernauts and a lot of marauders, but not too many sith warriors and the few that you will see will likely be below level 10.

so is it a wonder that many people see THAT as a class, not advanced specialization? Yes, given that the devs have stated that the AC's are DIFFERENT CLASSES.

I actually don't personally care whether they implement this ability or not, because I have no personal use for it. I have more than enough alts to cover most possibilities and enjoy certain stories enough to replay them over and over. I just get... lets call it mildly irritated at people who claim that switching between marauder and jugg is the same as switching between warrior and rogue and that advanced class IS the class.

no. its not.

I would like to remind everyone that the most recent comment from the new Dev staff indicates that they have been talking seriously about allowing AC change again and it is likely to happen in the future.

So that could point to the idea that the feeling on permanent AC choice may be changing.

I bet it would be pretty tough to play without the AC bonuses from the spec trees. Not to mention the extra abilities you get.

I wonder, if they really viewed this as a class and an important decision why they didnt make it mandatory?

Hopefully we can get back to the discussion at hand.

I am curious to know if anyone has reached level 55 without choosing a class. I know some folks posted a few links...I will look for them, but if they could be reposted I would appreciate it.

So, at this point I assume there are a few compromise models, not the only ones mind you, and not the last word on the matter, but here are the ones I am aware of that have been mentioned most often....

This is the one I am currently willing to begrudgingly support

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP is uneffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

This is another that has been mentioned

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

And yet another

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - 7 day cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

And the final one I have seen

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

If there are any other proposals for consideration, please let me know.