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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Denzul's Avatar


Denzul
05.27.2013 , 07:45 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
Yes. Because and this may be hard for you to understand as a more "elite" player who understands the mechanics deeply the vast majority of players who silently play and never speak up in places like this simply do not care. They want to play what "looks cool", or "has a lightsaber", or "the jumping class", or "the one that shoots lightning". They really do not care about categories like "Melee" and "Range" and stuff, nor what would be "optimum" in Nightmare Mode Explosive Conflict.

This is unfortunately a horrible metric because the people who post on forums are usually a very vocal, mild-to-severely insane slice of the greater community and tends to magnify issues deceptively. Even my arguments here in favor of the issue probably don't accurately reflect how the average, random player feels because I'm obviously more invested in the game's development than they are.

THIS, on the other hand, is the most legitimate argument I've heard so far and I really can't argue with you.

This is a very fine line developers have to walk, between losing people due to frustration at overly-draconian limitations, and losing people because they've undermined the whole reason to keep playing.

In a lot of ways, you strike a very strong point. Rather than AC change at max level, it might be better to pursue a system that lets you "copy" a character in some way and re-level them with some perks and boosts to help you get it done smoother and quicker. But, not killing the level-up process entirely.

But, you have to balance it against seeing how many people actually do re-roll alts versus sit at 50/55. It could very well increase interest by allowing bored max-levels (with zero desire to level again) to change up their gameplay, motivate different approaches and gearing, and hook them in to an "Oh, okay, I guess I can stay subbed another month..." response.
You may have me confused with one of the other posters. Never once have I proclaimed myself as an elite player. I play for fun nothing more. I've simply voiced my concerns were this feature to be implemented and gave examples. Also I can comprehend quite well, so please refrain from the condescending replies, I'm looking at this as a discussion nothing more.

So in a nutshell you want to swap between classes to avoid going through the story line again? Having two of the same classes myself I can definitely relate here. However while It would solve that one problem, It would spawn many more. It raises too many variables and they'd have to implement other changes to support It. We have enough in game right now that needs tweeking.

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
05.27.2013 , 07:46 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
Like your species and character features, right?
You trying to imply something by any chance? I haven't even unlocked the Cathar, let alone change a character species.

Quote:
Is anyone arguing that? This about being able to modify that choice later. As in, it's MY CHOICE to want to pay whatever fee they require to change my choice.
Your choice, as it is, is FINAL, PERMANENT, EVERLASTING. The game issues one or two warnings before you make that same choice. There's no point to an RPG if you have an issue with something as simpler as PERMAMENT choice.

Quote:
Why should they not introduce the option, just because you want to delusionally believe the hours you spend in a computer game represent a significant human effort that needs to remain unthreatened by the new generation having it easier? You sound like an angry World War II veteran complaining about hippies.
Not really. Again, other than one's laziness, there's no conceivable reason for someone not to be able to level yet another Jedi Knight to level 55. Period.

Quote:
And you tell me how many good old-fashioned RPGs had you playing with thousands of other players, Experience Boosts purchaseable with credit cards, and fully voice-acted cinematic cutscenes. What does this have to do with anything? Genres evolve to respond to new ideas and demands.
And who's demanding? If this topic shows anything, is the fact that most people are either against it or couldn't care less about it. You're part of a vocal minority, in case you failed to notice by now.

Quote:
Not at all. You spent hours obtaining that gear, and now I'm asking you to stop and do it all over again. Because you know you're perfectly capable of doing exactly that, and that within a month you'd be geared up all over again. Thus, I can only assume your aversion to re-gearing is out of laziness and a lack of desire to play the game.
And again, you're clutching at straws and nothing more, not to mention that said scenario already took place the moment 2.0 hit and I had no issue with it. It's called "Gear Reset"; Look it up.

Denzul's Avatar


Denzul
05.27.2013 , 08:21 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
Your choice, as it is, is FINAL, PERMANENT, EVERLASTING. The game issues one or two warnings before you make that same choice. There's no point to an RPG if you have an issue with something as simpler as PERMAMENT choice. .
Agreed, the option to change everything at the click of the button will only hurt the game. I've seen this In SWG and I've given other concerns that need not repeating.



Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
Not really. Again, other than one's laziness, there's no conceivable reason for someone not to be able to level yet another Jedi Knight to level 55. Period. .
Have to agree yet again. They've coddled us enough. We have the space bar and XP boosts via questing, not just thru CM.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
05.27.2013 , 09:12 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
Why should they not introduce the option, just because you want to delusionally believe the hours you spend in a computer game represent a significant human effort that needs to remain unthreatened by the new generation having it easier? You sound like an angry World War II veteran complaining about hippies.
Classic! +1

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
Your choice, as it is, is FINAL, PERMANENT, EVERLASTING. The game issues one or two warnings before you make that same choice. There's no point to an RPG if you have an issue with something as simpler as PERMAMENT choice.
It's only final, permanent and everlasting because that's how the game works at the moment, just as your choice of species used to be. If it stays that way, no biggie. If they change to allow AC change, equally no biggie.

Spinikar's Avatar


Spinikar
05.27.2013 , 09:25 PM | #125
To all the haters out there about AC changes, I have a question:

How the heck does allowing Advance class changes affect your game play, the game, or anything else?

I am asking this in all seriousness.

Sure I can re-roll another agent AC Sniper, because I am not a fan of the Operative DPS style. Power level through the grinds to 55 and look, I have a sniper! or I can pay BW some money to put forward to game development and hey Look! I have a sniper. Either way....I have a Sniper

Seriously, How players get their AC, does it really matter?????????!!!!!!!!

No, not really.
"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."
419 Empire Guild Leader
spinikar@419guild.com

Denzul's Avatar


Denzul
05.27.2013 , 09:48 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post


It's only final, permanent and everlasting because that's how the game works at the moment, just as your choice of species used to be. If it stays that way, no biggie. If they change to allow AC change, equally no biggie.
Changing your species, names, outfits, colors has no effect on game play at all as It's purely visual cosmetics.. Just as all CM items. It's safe to say whether or not a player can heal, stealth, dps, range, melee or tank being changed at the click of a button does impact game play.

Denzul's Avatar


Denzul
05.27.2013 , 09:56 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Spinikar View Post
To all the haters out there about AC changes, I have a question:

How the heck does allowing Advance class changes affect your game play, the game, or anything else?

I am asking this in all seriousness.

Sure I can re-roll another agent AC Sniper, because I am not a fan of the Operative DPS style. Power level through the grinds to 55 and look, I have a sniper! or I can pay BW some money to put forward to game development and hey Look! I have a sniper. Either way....I have a Sniper

Seriously, How players get their AC, does it really matter?????????!!!!!!!!

No, not really.
I along with many others have already addressed the exact reason why something like this could hurt the game. I don't mean to sound rude but players have already answered that question in more ways than one and reiterating the same thing over will just cause us to go in circles. I understand you may have entered the thread late but the previous pages are still readily accessible.

I will humor you.. So you power level a sniper. how long would you wager that'd take to reach lvl 55 and fully geared out?

hchsiao's Avatar


hchsiao
05.27.2013 , 09:58 PM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by astrobearx View Post
true but you missing my point also.

let use consular as a better example.


a jedi shadow is STILL a consular, but with defensive abilities.

a jedi sage is STILL a consular, but with healing abilities.



both are still a consular,and have all the powers that all consular get from lvl 1-55.

the differences between the two is one specialize in healing and the other in tanking.

these advance classes arent new standalone classes, theyre just a subset of the what a consular could be.

if these subclasses were to be remove the both shadow and sage, both will still be a consular.
I am sorry but I disagree..

For one Sage is more than just healing. If you compare Sage to the class in WOW. Seer Sage is more like Priest in WoW, while Telekinetics Sage is Mage and Destruction Warlock and Balance Sage is affliction Warlock and Shadow Priest.

In contrast Shadow is more of Druid without healing. Kinetic Combat is guardian druid, Infiltration is Feral / Rogue and Balance is more of pre cata unholy DK.

Shadow and Sage are complete difference class. They aren't just sub class. Once a consular take a advance class they will no longer be consular and If you remove the advance class than they are no longer shadow or sage and back to square one as pre-advance class character.

It is Bioware's fault to confuse hell of players and only make 1 class story line. However even Sage and shadow share the same story line, that doesn't mean they are the same and they are design to be the same. In some way that is like calling pitcher and catcher the same, they are all just baseball player and they can switch place anytime they want. (Ok.. It maybe true for u12 baseball or armature game between friends. But you won't see it any where else.) It is also like calling book and post card the same because they are all made from paper.

I also wonder if people consider the impact it will cause to raiding guild. No matter if it loot council or DKP, serious progress raiding guild have track everyone's gear progression in order to continue to progress. Can you image guild member, officers or even guild leader jack up all the loots when they switch their advance class.

Do you think pug will free from it? There will people need (aka ninja) the gear they couldn't use yet only because they could switch their advance class tomorrow.

Like I said.. I would support advance class change before lv 20. I think that is enough time for some one decide whenever they really like the class or not. People do make mistake when they pick advance class and some have no idea how a class turn out. Myself made mistake on picking advance class in beta. I picked Shadow instead Sage. I end up level shadow to lv 22 and found out I really hate it and re-level a sage to 44 before beta close. (I have 3 lv 50 sentinel before it.)

However switch class at max should never happen. Some people claim it is their character and they should free to play how they see fit to. The only issue is this is MMO, the decision you make no longer just impact you.

Some people question why haven't money hungry EA do it. The answer is really simple because it impact the game more than just few dollars. Blizzard doesn't dare to do it with WOW and that is the company started all the paid service such paid name change, paid server transfer, paid faction change, paid sex change, paid character re-customize and even paid remote action house.

Wow isn't free from paid class change, I have see it on the forum that create by fans time to time. Their reasons are exactly the same as people want advance class change in SWTOR.

Nythain's Avatar


Nythain
05.27.2013 , 10:03 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Denzul View Post
It's safe to say whether or not a player can heal, stealth, dps, range, melee or tank being changed at the click of a button does impact game play.
Just playin devils advocate with this, but you can already change 2/3 of those with the click of a button. Just not the other 1/3. My commando can easily go from DPS to Heals at the click of a button already, so i fail to see how detrimental to gameplay it would be to be able to change to Tank at the expense of a boatload of cartel coins?

Personally, I'm for the ability to change advance classes at a heavy cost. It will bring in more revenue for the game, and will allow those who feel the desire, to change to something else. Yes you could roll an alt, but since the base class determines the story, it's often times tedious and annoying to sit through half or more of the same story because you decided you wanted to try your hand at the other side of the fence.

That being said, I don't really personally care enough one way or another to get all uber defensive about either side of the argument. Just wanted to clarify the quoted argument was relatively null and moot. As you can currently change your roll, you're just limited in most cases to only changing between two roles instead of all three. I know some ACs are DPS only, but they are an exception in this case, not a rule. Majority ACs have two of the three roles available to them. And can switch between the two roles with the Skill Mentor.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
05.27.2013 , 10:03 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by Denzul View Post
Changing your species, names, outfits, colors has no effect on game play at all as It's purely visual cosmetics.. Just as all CM items. It's safe to say whether or not a player can heal, stealth, dps, range, melee or tank being changed at the click of a button does impact game play.
Again, so what? It's not like you would be able to change your class to an entirely new never-before-played class.

And it does not impact your game play.