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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
05.27.2013 , 06:53 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name;6362372Damn it, [I
that[/I] is my Bounty Hunter, that is my Smuggler, that is my Knight. No other one is!
I have two characters for each class, since I wanted to take advantage of each advanced class, plus I also wanted to experience every single storyline at least once. In each class, I have a male and female character, each of them, at least in my head, having their own ideas, desires, virtues and flaws, concerning their way of life, their attitude towards others, the Sith, the Jedi, the Republic, the Empire and so forth... In other words, regardless of the fact some of them share the same class and species, neither of them shares the same background, the same looks, the same tattoos, the same scars and that kind of thing. I'm going to assume that I'm not the only one in this position, so in other words...

If some of us manage to pull off convincing characters, that in the top of our heads, regardless of the fact they share the same class, are not exactly the same, why can't you?

Again, don't come up with shoddy excuses, just because you are lazy to level yet again another character up to level 50 or 55. Simple as that.

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.27.2013 , 07:04 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
If some of us manage to pull off convincing characters, that in the top of our heads, regardless of the fact they share the same class, are not exactly the same, why can't you?
This may be hard for you to comprehend, but you are not the Messianic template by which all humans are based and other people can, in fact, feel differently than you about the same thing. And I feel that the way I experienced the class story is the "canon" version for me, and I don't want to see it again with a different character.

Quote:
Again, don't come up with shoddy excuses, just because you are lazy to level yet again another character up to level 50 or 55. Simple as that.
You have no right to accuse anyone of being "lazy". First of all, yet again: this is a computer game. Get off your soapbox and take a hard look at just what you're lecturing people about. It's ludicrous.

Second, you're completely out of line calling anyone "lazy" for wanting to play the game differently than you. Hey, I've got an idea — BioWare should delete all the gear off your character once per month, to keep you interested in the game, and keep you interested in queueing for PUG content. It would work, wouldn't it? Gotta get my gear back!

What?? You don't want all your gear deleted once per month?? Stop inventing excuses for preventing that feature, you're obviously just too lazy to re-gear yourself again at 50 or 55. Simple as that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Maybe because I am not averse to work or effort?
Yes, I'm sure:
Quote: Originally Posted by Incredible resumé padding
  • Spent 3 days campaigning against AC changes for lazy people in Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • Leveled 16 (not 8) characters to 55 in the computer game Star Wars: The Old Republic (WITHOUT XP BOOSTS, because I'm a hardcore power trooper)
simply knocks people flat on their back when they spot it on your resumé.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.27.2013 , 07:05 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
I'd love to keep my Smuggler as I made her but be a Scoundrel moving forward.
You want to be a scoundrel moving forward. That means you leveled as gunslinger. Gee, gunslinger is generally accepted as being the OP class of those two classes in terms of DPS. So you chose to level as the OP DPS class, and now you want to change class to the healing class?

This couldn't possibly fall into the "I chose to level in the easy mode OP gunslinger AC and that I'm max level I want to heal." category, could it?

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
05.27.2013 , 07:08 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
You want to be a scoundrel moving forward. That means you leveled as gunslinger. Gee, gunslinger is generally accepted as being the OP class of those two classes in terms of DPS. So you chose to level as the OP DPS class, and now you want to change class to the healing class?

This couldn't possibly fall into the "I chose to level in the easy mode OP gunslinger AC and that I'm max level I want to heal." category, could it?
or she could have just want to change his smug adv because she level a operative and found it more fun than the sniper/gunslinger and now want to match her smuggler?

Denzul's Avatar


Denzul
05.27.2013 , 07:10 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
your concerns about the actual health of the game are fair.
*Snipped the rest of your post, because the quoted was all my post was pertaining to* Do you actually think all players would bother to learn the difference between one melee class over the other if they had the option to swap at the click of a button?

My post is as mentioned..from a business standpoint. In the end I believe it will lose subs. If not alone by upset players. Judging by the responses in this thread alone, not everyone is on board for this idea. By providing the customer with instant gratification - that customer will get bored that much faster and leave hence why I personally believe It wouldn't be healthy for the game overall.

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.27.2013 , 07:16 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
You want to be a scoundrel moving forward. That means you leveled as gunslinger. Gee, gunslinger is generally accepted as being the OP class of those two classes in terms of DPS. So you chose to level as the OP DPS class, and now you want to change class to the healing class?
*inappropriately frustrated remark redacted. I apologize for losing my temper.*

Let's recap, Captain Effortwork:
  • I leveled my Smuggler as my second character in February, before I even knew patch 2.0 was going to happen, because I was brand new to the game
  • I picked Gunslinger because Marti Calais is a curvy, decadent businesswoman who wouldn't be caught dead in a hand-to-hand scrap and risk messing up her pretty face. She learned to be a crack shot to defend herself during her more dubious underworld dealings, which she covers with her front operation, a modest shipping business. Scoundrel would make NO sense for her RP-wise.
  • The things Marti experienced in Chapter 2 and 3 pushed her over the edge and she's started just flat-out shooting and punching people in the face rather than trying to negotiate. She has absolutely evolved into a Scoundrel, but she didn't start that way.
  • I just finished leveling my Operative and found it WAY MORE FUN AND EASIER TO PLAY than I did with my Slinger, which was very hard for me because I don't play well as a stationary turret or pure-DPS. 'OP-ness' was the last thing on my mind when I leveled my Gunslinger.

Quote:
This couldn't possibly fall into the "I chose to level in the easy mode OP gunslinger AC and that I'm max level I want to heal." category, could it?
No, it couldn't, actually!

It could fall into the "I'm a happy person with a very overwhelming life who loves this game and its cinematic storytelling presentation and finds the gameplay fun, and is excited by tailoring my class to my character, and when I rolled my Smuggler, I didn't even know there were forums full of unhappy bullies who sulk around slinging words like 'OP' and 'easymode' and 'FOTM' at people who couldn't care less about these things and are just excited to try to make the game better with new features and options" category, though!!

*inappropriately frustrated remark redacted. I apologize for losing my temper.*

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
05.27.2013 , 07:20 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
This may be hard for you to comprehend (...)
You're the one who has some difficulty understanding that once you pick an advanced class, it's final, as in, PERMANENT. Period.

Quote:
(...) but you are not the Messianic template by which all humans are based and other people can, in fact, feel differently than you about the same thing. (....)
Nor did I claim I was. Going off-topic in order to mask the fact you don't have a single counter-argument is pointless.

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(...) And I feel that the way I experienced the class story is the "canon" version for me, and I don't want to see it again with a different character.
That's your choice, just like it was YOUR CHOICE to pick an advanced class when the game instructed you to do so.

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You have no right to accuse anyone of being "lazy".
Sure I do.

If I walked the extra mile, like so many people surely did, why should Bioware introduce the option of changing the advanced class, just because some people have an issue with the choices they've made?

Quote:
First of all, yet again: this is a computer game. Get off your soapbox and take a hard look at just what you're lecturing people about. It's ludicrous.
It's hardly ludicrous and since we're discussing the subject, here's an advice: Take a look around and tell me how many good old fashioned RPG's allowed you to switch classes, once you picked one for your character.

Quote:
Second, you're completely out of line calling anyone "lazy" for wanting to play the game differently than you.
Not really, since unlike some people, I accept the game for what it is and what the game was set out to do, once it made the choice of an advanced class permanent.

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Hey, I've got an idea — BioWare should delete all the gear off your character once per month, to keep you interested in the game, and keep you interested in queueing for PUG content. It would work, wouldn't it? Gotta get my gear back!
Nonsensical remark and completely non-related with the subject. Get a grip.

Quote:
What?? You don't want all your gear deleted once per month?? Stop inventing excuses for preventing that feature, you're obviously just too lazy to re-gear yourself again at 50 or 55. Simple as that.
You may want to add the word "silly" to "lazy" BTW, since again, this is entirely unrelated with what is being addressed.

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.27.2013 , 07:27 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Denzul View Post
Do you actually think all players would bother to learn the difference between one melee class over the other if they had the option to swap at the click of a button?
Yes. Because — and this may be hard for you to understand (meant seriously, not derisively) as a more "elite" player who understands the mechanics deeply — the vast majority of players who silently play and never speak up in places like this simply do not care. They want to play what "looks cool", or "has a lightsaber", or "the jumping class", or "the one that shoots lightning". They really do not care about categories like "Melee" and "Range" and stuff, nor what would be "optimum" in Nightmare Mode Explosive Conflict.

Quote:
Judging by the responses in this thread alone, not everyone is on board for this idea.
This is unfortunately a horrible metric because the people who post on forums are usually a very vocal, mild-to-severely insane slice of the greater community and tends to magnify issues deceptively. Even my arguments here in favor of the issue probably don't accurately reflect how the average, random player feels because I'm obviously more invested in the game's development than they are.

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By providing the customer with instant gratification - that customer will get bored that much faster and leave hence why I personally believe It wouldn't be healthy for the game overall.
THIS, on the other hand, is the most legitimate argument I've heard so far and I really can't argue with you.

This is a very fine line developers have to walk, between losing people due to frustration at overly-draconian limitations, and losing people because they've undermined the whole reason to keep playing.

In a lot of ways, you strike a very strong point. Rather than AC change at max level, it might be better to pursue a system that lets you "copy" a character in some way and re-level them with some perks and boosts to help you get it done smoother and quicker. But, not killing the level-up process entirely.

But, you have to balance it against seeing how many people actually do re-roll alts versus sit at 50/55. It could very well increase interest by allowing bored max-levels (with zero desire to level again) to change up their gameplay, motivate different approaches and gearing, and hook them in to an "Oh, okay, I guess I can stay subbed another month..." response.

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.27.2013 , 07:34 PM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
You're the one who has some difficulty understanding that once you pick an advanced class, it's final, as in, PERMANENT. Period.
Like your species and character features, right?

Quote:
That's your choice, just like it was YOUR CHOICE to pick an advanced class when the game instructed you to do so.
Is anyone arguing that? This about being able to modify that choice later. As in, it's MY CHOICE to want to pay whatever fee they require to change my choice.

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If I walked the extra mile, like so many people surely did, why should Bioware introduce the option of changing the advanced class, just because some people have an issue with the choices they've made?
Why should they not introduce the option, just because you want to delusionally believe the hours you spend in a computer game represent a significant human effort that needs to remain unthreatened by the new generation having it easier? You sound like an angry World War II veteran complaining about hippies.

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It's hardly ludicrous and since we're discussing the subject, here's an advice: Take a look around and tell me how many good old fashioned RPG's allowed you to switch classes, once you picked one for your character.
And you tell me how many good old-fashioned RPGs had you playing with thousands of other players, Experience Boosts purchaseable with credit cards, and fully voice-acted cinematic cutscenes. What does this have to do with anything? Genres evolve to respond to new ideas and demands.

Quote:
Nonsensical remark and completely non-related with the subject. Get a grip.
Not at all. You spent hours obtaining that gear, and now I'm asking you to stop and do it all over again. Because you know you're perfectly capable of doing exactly that, and that within a month you'd be geared up all over again. Thus, I can only assume your aversion to re-gearing is out of laziness and a lack of desire to play the game.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.27.2013 , 07:44 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post

Not at all. You spent hours obtaining that gear, and now I'm asking you to stop and do it all over again. Because you know you're perfectly capable of doing exactly that, and that within a month you'd be geared up all over again. Thus, I can only assume your aversion to re-gearing is out of laziness and a lack of desire to play the game.
Well, if they do decide to delete my gear once a month, then I guess I have a choice to make. I can either do what is necessary to get the gear again, or I can choose not to do so. I expect that will depend on my mood on any given day. I know that if I do not choose to get that gear again, then I will not have it, though. What you will not find me doing is complaining on the forums that I did it once, and the gear should be handed to me, since I don't feel like doing it again.

In much the same way, people can choose to level the AC they wish to play, or they can choose not to level it. If someone wants something enough, they will do what is necessary to obtain it.

The question we have to ask ourselves is "how much do we really want that"?