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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Denzul's Avatar


Denzul
05.27.2013 , 06:29 PM | #101
I just cant imagine it's anything other than being lazy. Also I'm looking at this from a business perspective. Unless there's a limit or extremely expensive - A player like myself with thousands of free CC or Disposable Cash could easily swap classes.

On the empire side I have an Operative healer, Sorc , Assassin, juggernaut and just began leveling my BH Pt. If this option became available to me - that would eliminate my personal need for my sorcerer, BH & assassin. I can just switch to and from Op to a sniper and from juggernaut to marauder anytime I please. That's ranged, melee, tank, dps, heals and stealth limited down from 5 to 2 classes.

Granted I'd need new gear for each class but we know that wouldn't take as long as rolling an alt. From a developer's point of view, that's months and months of lost game time from that one subscriber. I thought they gave us 12 slots for this being one of the reasons.

hchsiao's Avatar


hchsiao
05.27.2013 , 06:31 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by schmel View Post
I think that's probably true. The thing is that levels 1-10 don't teach you how to play your class at all. Especially if you consider the AC to be the class. 1-10 is more of a tutorial mode that teaches you how to play the game. And most games let you skip tutorial mode after you've played it once.
I don't think it is necessary true and base on the MMOs I have played Word of Warcraft is the game you can skip levels. Deaht Knight started at lv 50 and WOW's RAF programer also had xp power up which allow you level up to 60 in secound. (Thou the max level you can get from it is lv 60 when lv 80 was the max level.)

I know Some people say advance class is stupid and player should start at whatever they choice. Personally I don't mind the advance class as I played pre-combat upgrade Star War Galaxies. (I also think all the game BW is part with has similar class progression such as Neverinter night and DA:O). I also think it is nice to have character progression in MMO rather than just talent spec and levels however I think most MMO players don't care about that.

Speaking of Pre-CU SWG, not only player can pick 2 base class and each base class has 3 or 4 advance class but also player can switch advance class and base class anytime. There is a lot of freedom and imagination.

However it also created a lot of issues because there is always FOTM hybird. It was good time when you see stuff such as lighting cannon spec bounty hunter running around with 2 rancor or Master TKA + Master Rifleman or even Master PIstoleer + bounty pistol spec bounty hunter. Every month SOE spend a lot of time on nerfing the FOTM but only end up create another FOTM.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.27.2013 , 06:33 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
This is complete fearmongering. You have as much danger of facing this if you deal with someone who just switch to Tank after leveling 53 levels as DPS and has no Tanking mods or augments and all low-Health/high-Stat armorings.

Better prevent people from respec'ing, huh?
Yes, we already have to deal with that with those that change spec from DPS to tank. We do not have to deal with those that change from heals to tank, or from tank to heals. Does the fact that we already have to deal with this to a certain extent justify compounding it by allowing people to change class completely? In my opinion, it doesn't. By not allowing class changes, we keep those situations to a minimum.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.27.2013 , 06:34 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
I have a question.

With your ferocious obsession about hard work and effort, why are you not somewhat more uncomfortable about all the hours you spend arguing about mild changes in a single computer game?
Maybe because I am not averse to work or effort?

Denzul's Avatar


Denzul
05.27.2013 , 06:35 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by hchsiao View Post
I don't think it is necessary true and base on the MMOs I have played Word of Warcraft is the game you can skip levels. Deaht Knight started at lv 50 and WOW's RAF programer also had xp power up which allow you level up to 60 in secound. (Thou the max level you can get from it is lv 60 when lv 80 was the max level.)

I know Some people say advance class is stupid and player should start at whatever they choice. Personally I don't mind the advance class as I played pre-combat upgrade Star War Galaxies. (I also think all the game BW is part with has similar class progression such as Neverinter night and DA:O). I also think it is nice to have character progression in MMO rather than just talent spec and levels however I think most MMO players don't care about that.

Speaking of Pre-CU SWG, not only player can pick 2 base class and each base class has 3 or 4 advance class but also player can switch advance class and base class anytime. There is a lot of freedom and imagination.

However it also created a lot of issues because there is always FOTM hybird. It was good time when you see stuff such as lighting cannon spec bounty hunter running around with 2 rancor or Master TKA + Master Rifleman or even Master PIstoleer + bounty pistol spec bounty hunter. Every month SOE spend a lot of time on nerfing the FOTM but only end up create another FOTM.

^^ this^^ I played SWG too and every time a new FOTM was realized by the player base a large percentage of them would swap to said profession/class. You'd see one guy a bh one month and a week later he's a jedi.

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
05.27.2013 , 06:38 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Caelrie View Post
Yours is even more semantic than his. The entirety of your argument is tied up in the definition of a word. At least his argument brings abilities and armor into the equation. Yours doesn't. Your entire argument is ONE WORD. The beginning and end of your entire argument is that this should be allowed because of a way that you define a single word (which the developers don't share, and they're the final word).

That's as semantic as it gets.
double post on the same subject


also, you wrong about what the other guy said when you said you respond to my latest my post

At least his argument brings abilities and armor into the equation.

oh really? he said that? well this is his post

Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
Advanced Class=class. You wouldn't be able to buy a class change from a warrior to a mage in another game, it makes just as little sense in this one.
1. nowhere did he mention gear or abilities. clearly you didnt read it right

2. his example doesnt hold much weight as there is no classes in tor that can do that. the only classes that could be represented his idea is the inquisitor/ consular classes and those classes are, once again subclasses on SI/JC and the assassin or shadow can act as a mage like dpser.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
Because Bioware won't let my have the Jewel of the Dark Side, which would amplify my powers and allow me to take control of the galaxy in my bid for a tyrannical dictatorship.
Poo-doo.

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.27.2013 , 06:42 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by Denzul View Post
I can just switch to and from Op to a sniper and from juggernaut to marauder anytime I please. That's ranged, melee, tank, dps, heals and stealth limited down from 5 to 2 classes.
If you're happy only having a single playstyle for each role, then sure, go for it, have 2 characters and 4 roles. Who cares?? If you're having fun and playing well, great! Personally, I would still want multiple alts because playing the same style gets old after a while. Melee as Assassin is a totally different experience than melee as a Marauder.

But I already worked through my class stories with certain classes and I feel very attached to:
  • the character
  • everything she did and accomplished
  • her choices
  • her personality
  • her story and backstory
  • her relationship with her companions
  • her alignment (I always eagerly see what my final alignment is based on all my in-character choices)
  • the pieces and goodies she picked up along the way
  • the outfits I meticulously constructed for myself (and my entire crew)
Damn it, that is my Bounty Hunter, that is my Smuggler, that is my Knight. No other one is!

I don't want a substitute or re-do because that's not fun to me. I already saw the story and played it my way. I'm happy with the character. I just ended up finding, for example, the Gunslinger playstyle fairly bland. I like my Agent/Operative a lot better. I'd love to keep my Smuggler as I made her but be a Scoundrel moving forward.

I don't bloody care if you accuse me of being "lazy" for not wanting to re-do my beloved and patiently-crafted characters. It's a damn computer game. Go find a real problem in the outside world to picket and moan about and actually effect positive change with your neurotic energy.

On the other hand, people proposing actual gameplay problems have my respect and understanding, and I'm listening to you. So far, I don't feel any issue brought up is so severe that it can't be adapted to or worked past. But, your concerns about the actual health of the game are fair.

hchsiao's Avatar


hchsiao
05.27.2013 , 06:44 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by astrobearx View Post
how is my post semantical?


first, sw adv classes main attack in rotation are the core abilities.all SW players whether jugg or mara use the the CORE abilities in their rotation. the advance classes are JUST SUB CLASSES not NEW CLASSES.

the advance classes are a fork in the road


example

_____________________________________________ / juggernaut

Sith warror -------/
\
___________________________________________ \mararuder



BOTH classes are still warrior, but each one just branches off into a new sub classes.

they ,however, are not a new class.
Your example only for Knight / Sith Warrior but it doesn't work for Trooper, Consular and Smuggler as their advance class are complete different style. (And their IMP counter part.) Vanguard and Scoundrel and Shadow are fixed with Melee and range while Commando, Gunslinger and Sage are pure range.

Commando, Gunslinger and Sage would drop their melee attack complete out of rotation. Do you want to play with DPS sage who stand next to boss and spam double strike? or play with shadow only use telekinetic wave and so? ( I once in a Heroic with a Shadow tank only use his range attack. I end up tank the boss on my sage 80% of time thank to over geared sage healer)

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
05.27.2013 , 06:51 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by hchsiao View Post
Your example only for Knight / Sith Warrior but it doesn't work for Trooper, Consular and Smuggler as their advance class are complete different style. (And their IMP counter part.) Vanguard and Scoundrel and Shadow are fixed with Melee and range while Commando, Gunslinger and Sage are pure range.

Commando, Gunslinger and Sage would drop their melee attack complete out of rotation. Do you want to play with DPS sage who stand next to boss and spam double strike? or play with shadow only use telekinetic wave and so? ( I once in a Heroic with a Shadow tank only use his range attack. I end up tank the boss on my sage 80% of time thank to over geared sage healer)
true but you missing my point also.

let use consular as a better example.


a jedi shadow is STILL a consular, but with defensive abilities.

a jedi sage is STILL a consular, but with healing abilities.



both are still a consular,and have all the powers that all consular get from lvl 1-55.

the differences between the two is one specialize in healing and the other in tanking.

these advance classes arent new standalone classes, theyre just a subset of the what a consular could be.

if these subclasses were to be remove the both shadow and sage, both will still be a consular.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
Because Bioware won't let my have the Jewel of the Dark Side, which would amplify my powers and allow me to take control of the galaxy in my bid for a tyrannical dictatorship.
Poo-doo.

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.27.2013 , 06:52 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Yes, we already have to deal with that with those that change spec from DPS to tank. We do not have to deal with those that change from heals to tank, or from tank to heals. Does the fact that we already have to deal with this to a certain extent justify compounding it by allowing people to change class completely? In my opinion, it doesn't. By not allowing class changes, we keep those situations to a minimum.
Spec changes have almost never been an issue in my experience, and I PUG a lot. The learning curve isn't that bad in this game, and usually guiding someone who admits they're new with a few tips and patience will get them up to speed fine.

You're trying to use arguments involving controlling people and ensuring nothing ever goes wrong. That's horrible. No matter what you try to implement, you will get confused people making mistakes. If that scares you: don't group with strangers. Then you don't have to be affected by all these repercussions you're afraid of.

Here's the thing. You know what else would help your concerns? Don't let people use Group Finder for anything but difficulty settings that are literally impossible to fail. Then, nothing can go wrong! Yes! Except WoW basically did that, and turned queueable content into a depressing flatline people mock and avoid as soon as they're done farming it.

The capacity for failure in a system is okay. It's okay if people can do things and make mistakes with it. My experience is that only the massive errors stand out in our memories, but the vast majority of people do "fine" when presented with systems that have error potential, and most of the rest can be helped with simple guidance and explanation.

I believe the hilarious misuses of AC Change would stand out and make for tabloid-headline forum posts, while the vast majority would actually add little to no damage to the game. But go unnoticed, because it doesn't make a good sensationalized rant.