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PvE DPS dummy Rotation all classes (Small Guide + Videos)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Server Forums > The Harbinger
PvE DPS dummy Rotation all classes (Small Guide + Videos)

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
05.23.2013 , 11:41 PM | #1
So, i am not one of those that run many Random Ops or group without my guildies, i used to gear up all my chars BiS mostly with crafting before expansion, but now forcing me to pug and group with more people to gear all my chars, i have noticed something... majority of the dps have NO CLUE what they are doing (same with tanks and heals, but thats harder to show in a dummy), people not only dont parse and try dps, they dont have anywhere to learn "what" and "when" to use their spells, ive seen people asking in fleet, everyone is like go Noxxic or MMo-champion forums (rly annoying to read forum posts) and noxxic is 90% wrong and dont think that can be called a "guide" at all.

Any Questions are fine, i will try to answer them, would love the feedback on certain classes from people i know are great (beast as mara, sammul deception Ssin, Daelek as sniper, Stomach as Lighting sorc. fasc or zakiro as merc) or any other person with a good "positive Feedback" on the classes i will post i dont have THAT much expertise.

IMPORTANT all around tips:
  1. on classes like assassin and Marauders, just because u have 20 force means u have to use it, if u have 20 force with D.field 2 secs away from CD... if u use trash... you will be holding your D.F on CD almost 2 GCD, so you want to save that force for the important spell, saber strike instead so u can use D.Field on CD.
  2. same with marauder just because u have 3 rage doesnt mean you have to use massacre if you know u have a Gore window short after (scream 2 needed regen 1 + massacre 3 + regen 1 twice.. so you need at least 6= Scream 6- 2 (+1) = 5 - 3 (+1) (massacre) = 3 - 3 (+1) (massacre) = 1 left over, but an ideal Gore Window.)... so if yo have 3 rage with Gore window close, smart thing is using assault or Batt assault so u can gain full use of the Gore timer.
  3. Classes like Merc / Agents with Vent heat / Adrenaline Probe... notice how it is a 50 + 25 kind of DoT Regen, this means, if you using Vent heat / Adrenaline anywhere above 40 energy not followed by an attack, you are wasting dps... watch the videos how i normally wait for 25-30 energy + AP + attack.. or 75-90 heat + Vent heat + attack.

The set up is: Class / Spec / Lvl of Expertise (1 being awful, 10 being perfect) / Video Link / important Tips ---- CD= Cooldown ---- GCD= global Cooldown (1.5 sec by default without alacrity) rest of the acronyms are by class/spells.

SORCERER:
Madness
Lvl Of expertise: 9
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M6Jr...ature=youtu.be
Tips: Always use recklessness with : D.field + Force Lighting... try to use CDs at start of fight, some of them can be triggered 5-10 seconds before fight start, to gain some advantage on the CD.
Start with: affliction + D.field + C.Terror + Flighting + Wrath Procs= Crush Darkness or L. Strike unless C.Dark is under 2 seconds of remaining CD.
dont use shock unless you are moving, dont use dots until they are fully depleted, use D.Field on C.Dark always and F.lighting as filler, DO NOT use LS or C.Dark. WITHOUT Wrath proc.

SORCERER

Lighting
Expertise: 6
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ2EpgAIsxQ
Tips: Always Use Recklessness with: F.lighting + Chain Lighting (with proc). ALWAYS use F.lighting before Chain lighting (double proc will eat both stacks of Reck,)
Start with: Affliction + T.Blast + Flighting + C.Dark (until Chain lighting proc + Flighting is off CD to use Recklessness right away)... keep affliction full time up, T.blast on CD... F.lighting on CD... C.dark if TB + FL are on CD.. LS if rest are on CD with 1.5-2 sec remaining still, otherwise use Shock... use Chain lighting procs when everything is on CD ( TB, FL, CDark).

Assassin
Madness
Expertise: 7.5
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK0jxcxLjaY
Tips: Use Recklessness with Death field + Shock (only use shock with starting Reck.) rest you can use with C.dark procs... DF on Cd all the time, keep both dots up, only use C.Dark proc IF your target is not being affected by one CDark already (wait for it to vanish)... and use trash as Filler.

Assassin
Deception
Expertise: 7.5
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5bGCqlPF5o
Tips: Recklessness will grant you 3 stacks of Discharge.. so you want to start with: Reck + spike + discharge + shock + maul + Voltaic x 2, after 6 seconds use your Blackout for Regen after the 6 secs are done use vanish + Spike + maul (reck. CD reduced by 1 minute), wait 6 secs, use Blackout Again.
keep Voltaic 2 stack up all the time, use shock on CD, discharge only 3 stacks, Blackout and Vanish on CD (remember vanish refresh Blackout and reduce Reck 1 minute Cd, so use Reck always before vanishing).. voltaic as filler, and Low lash every 10 seconds for Maul proc... Maul ONLY when it procs.

MARAUDER
Carnage
Expertise: : 9
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJjmfeoftkM
Tip: try not to drain all your rage using massacre, try to mix them between rotations, i found better to hold ravage until Gore proc + Scream... always use Scream on the gore window (After all it has a 100% chance crit) if it didnt proc, use Vicious throw instead... consider you always have 1 gore + 1 after... full CD... 2 gores... full CD... so for example in the second Cycle, after full CD, u have gore + scream and ravage at 3 Sec, use gore + scream, and save the ravage for the second gore that will proc soon after, do NOT hold gores, use them all the time, should always have room for a scream or VT in each Gore and / or Ravage.

MARAUDER
Annihilation
Expertise: 7
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjwF_BONITY
Tip: basically Use annihilate on CD.. wait for Rupture dot to be over before applying another one.. use Dot on CD with charge... Ravage on the Annihilate CD window, Berserk Right away.

MARAUDER
Rage
Expertise: 9
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWgeIfYaZag
Tip: The trick is cycling your rotation to make it 1- Force crush + 1 Berserk each cycle for smash it is really simple... Start: Dual saber + Jump + F.Crush + Batt assault + smash (more dmg 8 sec after it) + obliterate + ravage + free scream + V.Slash until 30 Fury.. Bersekr (with set bonus this will give u a full time +4% dmg basically since you proc is rly quick).
basically you want to make sure you follow the rotation... after berserk (u already have 1 previous obliterate) smash + F.crush/Obliterate/Scream (in that order if CD let you) OR ravage AFTER initial F.crush then spam V.slash (use Dual saber if u short on rage) until next smash is up and free.. smash, repeat the same until next berserk... repeat all the time.

POWERTECH
Pyro/Hybrid
Expertise: 8
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4uzwhk3OJM
Tip : Start with Inc. Missile to have 1 rail shot free of proc, normally is always better yo use Flame Burst Vs Rocket Punch if you know u are in the Rail shot CD window (3 GCD) also is better to do F.burst if you going to rapid shot after for the DoT... rocket punch is best as your 3rd attack to higher chance of proc from Rail shot... the trick is having either T.Sensor.Over. for inc. missile OR at the initial burst using it with a vent heat in the bag... or try to save that Last Rail shot free Proc (if yo u proc. it and you have 2-4 Secs remaining on Inc. missile) hold it, depending on your heat (25 under, missile + rail shot) if ( 30 more Rail shot + missile).

POWERTECH
Adv. Prototype
Expertise: 7.5
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v_5oVF53xw
Tip: : keep the Dot from Retac. Blade up all the time... only use rocket punch if its free... immolate on CD, Rail shot always after R.Punch Proc, Flame burst as filler, and F.Thrower as your best attack... Start: Ret blade + immolate + R.punch + rail shot + Fburst filler (Fthrower stacks) + Fthrower only at 3 stacks (only if you are between 0-35 Heat before Use) Otherwise use T.S.O or if you doing your bomb, Vent heat later.

MERCENARY
Arsenal
Expertise: 8.5
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnc3Uwp4Fs
Tip: : Arsenal Merc is rly dependant on fight, if you want to use fusion missile or not, or Death from Above, besides that, it is a really simple mechanic where the hard part is knowing " when to rapid shot"... unload ALWAYS on CD + Proc... Rail shot on CD (5 stacks) Hseeking (on CD) Tracer as filler...Power Surge 2x Tracer missiles or depending on fight x1 tracer x1 Fusion (with T.S.O)... basically arsenal trick is... knowing that unload is your best attack.. dont get excited with tracers otherwise you will end up with 40 Heat + unload Proc without T.S.O or vent heat and you are screwed... it is ALWAYS better to add 1 Rapid shot between certain attacks, than having to do 3-4 straight Rapid shot Wasting CDs timers... and of course having luck with your unload Proc .

SNIPER
MarksManship
Expertise:: 9
Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_oUH...ature=youtu.be
Tip: MM is all about doing quick+strong hits, with decent dmg going in between cast (Corrosive Dart)... you should always try to prioritize F.through /SoS / Ambush with snipe as Filler + ambush Stack... Start (boss fight no shatter shot): try to use laze target before starting fight (save CD) Orbital + C.dart + cover instant snipe + FT + SoS + FT + ""IMPORTANT TRICK"" move out of cover (1 step) get in cover again (instant snipe proc every 6 secs = 3 attacks or 4 GCD) this is for your Ambush stacks + Snipers Volley + Ambush + FT + SoS + FT + Dart again, repeat.
MM trick: always prioritize 1 Dart (if dot is over) over a snipe, dont use Sniper + instant Sniper if you are under 75 energy if u want to do FT + another attack later, or you will be starving energy.... Orbital on CD try to start the cast when you are between 75-80 energy... if you are at 85-90 its good to have a FT enabled to cast right after OS cast followed by some rifle shots OR long ambush Cast.

SNIPER
Leth/Eng Hybrid
Experstise:: 9.5
Video: : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIyj7...ature=youtu.be
Tip : this spec has A LOT of dmg from orbital (30% + crit compared to MM) but it also has huge energy starve after if you want to use Cull on CD, so the trick is having DoT set up (with at least 8+secs) before Orbital, if you start cast above 75-80 you should be fine.. if you are at 90-100 use Explosive Probe + Orbital + Cull + rifle shot, huge bomb that wont starve you...
Priorityze C.bomb + C. Dart above I.Probe (in boss fights its easier to use than dummy), try to use Cull on CD all the time.. probe before Cull normally leads to SoS after or Laze Target snipe... and in worst case scenario Cull 4.5+ CD Probe CD AND any dot between 1-3 secs of being done if you have 75+ energy... Cast Ambush long cast + redot + rifle shot + Cull... Start: OS + C.Bomb + E. Probe + C.Dart + I. Probe + Cull + SoS + laze target Snipe (adrenaline Probe) and keep the priority above.

OPERATIVE
Concelament
Expertise:: 10000
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHTNy...ature=youtu.be
Tip: Post 2.0 Concealment energy management its a joke, you have to prioritize having C.dart up all time... Shiv + Laceration and using Acid Blade on CD holes to waste energy... the TRICK is you dont have to wait for Backstab CD to be over to use Acid blade + Bstab... actually u have to use Acid Blade that point when u have C.dart active, shiv on CD, laceration done and 1 T.A and u have 70+ energy, regardless of BS CD, thats your time, it is a spec that depends A LOT on rifle shots, and its really hard to use OS in the rotation (normally u want, C.dart active + acid blade active + BS cd between 2-4 secs... start casting orbital + Free B.S after cast is done + rifle shot) and you wont starve energy, then continue with Shiv and lucky laceration collateral strikes.... important as well the use of A.B + Vanish hidden strike.... the use of Stim boost Extra T.A.
Start: Acid blade before the fight starts, start with 100 energy.. hidden strike + dart + Backstab (NO A.B in the opener) + shiv + Laceration x2 + A.B + Vanish hidden Strike + depending on your laceration proc before, if u have 1 T.A use stim boost, if u have 2 use laceration + stim boost + laceration x2 Adrenaline probe + rifle shot... then use the priority.

OPERATIVE:
Lethality
Expertise 10000
Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmcGV...ature=youtu.be
Tip : Lethality is the art of destroying Dots + lucky Cull procs... it is a stable dps rotation with insane lucky burst, keep both dots all the time.. USE weakening blast GCD on energy starve moment and use on CD all the time (after OS for example, after 2x cull).. cull always on CD, if you have the Execution Proc for free Cull and u have 80+ energy use Explosive probe + cull + rifle shot 1 or 2x + shiv or Cull depending on your energy... Use OS on CD / cull on CD / WB on CD + energy starve + Shiv on CD for the culls... backstab as filler when everything is down and u have 75+ energy... otherwise rifle shot if u are under... Start: OS + Hidden strike + Dart (dont instant tick, ticks on 3 secs) + WB + C.Bomb (instant tick, that way u eat 2 WB stacks right away) + Shiv + (here varies) if u got execution.. probe + cull... if u dont... use cull + stim boost + cull + vanish hidden strike + cull + shiv (probable proc) + cull + redot + adrenaline rush + 2xcull + shiv then rest depending on your energy either cull or WB to save some energy.
The trick with this spec are the energy problems, specially after culls or orbital, is knowing than free attacks (same with B.S on concealment) are 1.5 GCD which is 1 1/2 your energy regen (6 + 0.5 sec) by the time you use your next attack + its GCD you have ( initial 6 + 6 + 6 (GCD) + 0.5 sec + dot crit (luck).. this means W.B or free attack basically gives you either 18-24 energy regen (if you rifle shot) or 1 extra "free" attack in cost later to maintain energy levels.

UPDATED
JUGGERNAUGHT :
Vengeance
Expertise: 6 (its not a hard rotation)
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsL5nSEjt0U
Tip: Take consideration that the video is done in tank gear, so i dont have Saber throw in my rotation which should be used with sundering assault all the time as Rage Builders... rotation is simple.. Ravage priority all the time... VT when it procs... Scream only with 2 Stacks (impale + shatter builds it) impale + shatter on CD unless u have a FS CD between 0.5-2 sec CD remaining and you ALREADY have 2 stacks of FS crit, you can prob do a Free smash (used when everything else is on CD or when u want to build 1 rage only) hold it, do your scream Crit.. then impale or shatter and continue your rotation.

JUGGERNAUGHT
Rage
Expertise: 9
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J--XsmBDDk8
Tip : this is a mirror Rotation from marauder, consider that video doesnt have saber throw set bonus.... it is simple, aside sundering assault, u should not need any other Rage builder with that and Saber Throw... the trick is"jump / smash / enrage CD is Reduced on each FS / any slash - assault ability... so you go 1 rotation with F. Crush, other rotation with Enrage which will build 12 rage in the process. also you want to spend the most dmg abilities 8 seconds after smash its ranked like this: F.Crush - Ravage - VT - Obliterate - Scream (free of cost) / VSlash... you will normally have like 2-3 rage when using Enrage which will cause 3 + 6= 9 +1+1+1+1+1 every second, so you dont want to waste rage, so enrage is followed by a spam of w/e ability u have to use, preferably V.slash, and never followed by sundering assault or Saber Throw,... also you have have a good mind to remember your buffs and not do F.Crush over 3 shockwave or smashing without obliterate, you have to be good at buffs, or just do it out of habit.

Important points:
  1. It is NOT a guide, its just a video where you can easily see the "Basic" on what to use, when to use, and how to manage resources.
  2. Some rotations are not PERFECT in every aspect of the video (perfect dummy parse), some have small mistakes, i just didnt have enough time to do them all over again, and the fact that i only play 3 of the 8 classes as dps atm, i was a bit rusty in some classes, yet i am pretty sure all of them are an almost perfect rotation - Management.
  3. i am not here trying to Brag or something, in fact, 3 of my chars are tanks, 1 is not in my account, 1 is healer, 1 is under geared, other 2 are fine... this is not a "I will show you how i parse 2800 with all my chars", i didnt even parse it, i just tried to do an almost perfect rotation; i am pretty sure more than 1, on all guilds, maybe even some of the good guilds, have asked their members to "learn" or "practice" how to play their class to perform better, so i am pretty sure this will help them and everyone that is interested.

I have been playing since launch, i play all 8 classes, i had them all BiS 63 geared pre 2.0, all of them were ranked in the Server dps LeaderBoard (might not be the top on ALL of them, i wasnt, but i had all my chars on each top 5 except for jug + merc that were my brothers char). ive leaded HATRED since day 1, been the top dps (with some competition always) in there for a long time, so if you think you are better than me, fine, u might be on certain classes why not, just dont watch it and if u have advice, go ahead and post it.... if you think u can find some tips go ahead and watch.

Just general info, so people know its not the classic dude that have done SaV sm 2 times and think hes the best and will record his dummy fight, i have long raiding history, everyone who has played with me knows it, and the point is any of my guildies i can help myself if i can, and i am sure the top 5-7 guilds in the server have their Awesome dps person to help, but 90% of the community doesnt, so it is for them, or anyone who want to compare .

PD: this is just for help, dont start with the "grammar" thing, everyone knows English is not my thing... dont start with the Format complains "hurt My eyes" i dont care lol, i am not getting paid or winning something from this, just trying to be helpful... Also any question are welcome, and try to bring any good info / Parse / knowledge if you want to do an advice dont just be random being maybe a new player, or not having any good ranked parse or experience commenting: "this post is wrong, hes a noob, you should totally use Explosive probe on op. rotation or use V.Slash on Carnage spec instead of massacre" stuff that are wrong ( a question is fine, a wrong "fact" wont help)

Hope it Can Be Helpful..
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

seektravota's Avatar


seektravota
05.24.2013 , 05:35 AM | #2
Hands down the best clicker rotation I've ever seen!
<Ghost Infantry> <The Last Centurions>

THE HARGINGER

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
05.24.2013 , 07:26 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by seektravota View Post
Hands down the best clicker rotation I've ever seen!
hehe hope itsn ot a joke but yeah thx also the Clicks help a lot on people watching the videos to know which spell without CD i am using, you can see me spamming clicks lol.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

Mularky's Avatar


Mularky
05.24.2013 , 08:38 AM | #4
Your mm vid is the your hybrid vid and your hybrid vid is named your mm vid. you named your vids wrong (:

Mularky's Avatar


Mularky
05.24.2013 , 09:38 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux;6347315
[I
SNIPER[/I]
MarksManship
Expertise:: 9
Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_oUH...ature=youtu.be
Tip: MM is all about doing quick+strong hits, with decent dmg going in between cast (Corrosive Dart)... you should always try to prioritize F.through /SoS / Ambush with snipe as Filler + ambush Stack... Start (boss fight no shatter shot): try to use laze target before starting fight (save CD) Orbital + C.dart + cover instant snipe + FT + SoS + FT + ""IMPORTANT TRICK"" move out of cover (1 step) get in cover again (instant snipe proc every 6 secs = 3 attacks or 4 GCD) this is for your Ambush stacks + Snipers Volley + Ambush + FT + SoS + FT + Dart again, repeat.
MM trick: always prioritize 1 Dart (if dot is over) over a snipe, dont use Sniper + instant Sniper if you are under 75 energy if u want to do FT + another attack later, or you will be starving energy.... Orbital on CD try to start the cast when you are between 75-80 energy... if you are at 85-90 its good to have a FT enabled to cast right after OS cast followed by some rifle shots OR long ambush Cast.


Hope it Can Be Helpful..
Another good rotation that Daelek had told me is:
Orbital - Corrisive dart - SoS - FT - Snipervolley - SoS - FT - Snipe x2 - FT - Ambush - FT - corrisve dart - repeat....remember to use orbital strike off cooldown.

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
05.24.2013 , 11:42 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Mularky View Post
Another good rotation that Daelek had told me is:
Orbital - Corrisive dart - SoS - FT - Snipervolley - SoS - FT - Snipe x2 - FT - Ambush - FT - corrisve dart - repeat....remember to use orbital strike off cooldown.
yeah ive used that, main problem with that is... that you lose your initial Snipe stack from the first instant snipe + laze target... so you are adding 1+ GCD to your Ambush (SoS & ambush = your priority spells), so you can do two things, like i do you can OS + dart + snipe + SoS + FT + (hold Sniper Volley) + Instant snipe (for 2 stack) + Sniper Volley + Ambush + FT + SoS + Ft... OR the other option you can use as well if you know fight doesnt demand too much CD use (Sniper Volley)... is going with OS + Dart + snipe + SoS + FT + Sniper + FT + (choose: Snipe x2 + FT / OR Explosive PRobe + Rifle shot) + Refreshed SoS + Ft + sniper Volley + SoS + FT (you gain 1 SoS holding the CD 5-6 seconds using other good spells since you have Adrenaline Probe to Fill the Excess of Energy deman OR a fight with a movement mechanic... and you use SoS + Ft + Sv + SoS + FT as a bomb + Dart + Depend: Instant sniper Or Ambush depending on your CD and speed).
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

WiththeForc's Avatar


WiththeForc
05.24.2013 , 12:18 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
MARAUDER
Carnage
Expertise: : 9
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJjmfeoftkM
Tip: try not to drain all your rage using massacre, try to mix them between rotations, i found better to hold ravage until Gore proc + Scream... always use Scream on the gore window (After all it has a 100% chance crit) if it didnt proc, use Vicious throw instead... consider you always have 1 gore + 1 after... full CD... 2 gores... full CD... so for example in the second Cycle, after full CD, u have gore + scream and ravage at 3 Sec, use gore + scream, and save the ravage for the second gore that will proc soon after, do NOT hold gores, use them all the time, should always have room for a scream or VT in each Gore and / or Ravage.
Good video and good description. In the video, it looks like you're using this rotation:
Force Charge > Battering Assault > Gore + Berserk + Frenzy + Bloodthirst + Adrenal + Relic > Ravage > Vicious Throw > Massacre > Massacre > Gore > Force Scream > Massacre > Dual Saber Throw

I would change the opener of your rotation to this:
Force Charge > Battering Assault > Gore + Berserk + Frenzy + Bloodthirst + Adrenal + Relic > Massacre > Massacre > Massacre > Force Scream > Gore > Ravage > Vicious Throw

With this opener, you just have to pray that your slaughter doesn't proc from FC or BA. Then you can take advantage of getting 4 moves in your opening gore window (3 massacres and a Scream) and then get a Ravage and a vicious throw. With the particular rotation in the video (granted it was based off procs so it wouldn't be the same every time) you would run out of your berserk charges once you used dual saber throw, so you would not be able to fit a fourth move in that gore window. Sometimes things can go wrong with the RNG, but I've found this opener to have the smallest RNG associated with it.

As for rage management and a priority system, I follow a few simple rules. For rage management, I will bobble around 6-7 rage until I have about 3 sec left on the cd of Battering Assault. At that point I hit Massacre twice then battering assault to get my rage back up. Then as a rule of thumb, I only hit rupture after I've gotten my execute proc.
For the gore window I follow this priority system:
1. Ravage
2. Force Scream (with execute proc)
3. Vicious Throw
4. Force Scream (without execute)
5. Dual Saber Throw
<Hatred> <Zorz> <Four of Five><It's Lit>
All 8-man content cleared on-tier pre-4.0, 4.0, and
5.0

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
05.24.2013 , 12:42 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by WiththeForc View Post
Good video and good description. In the video, it looks like you're using this rotation:
Force Charge > Battering Assault > Gore + Berserk + Frenzy + Bloodthirst + Adrenal + Relic > Ravage > Vicious Throw > Massacre > Massacre > Gore > Force Scream > Massacre > Dual Saber Throw

I would change the opener of your rotation to this:
Force Charge > Battering Assault > Gore + Berserk + Frenzy + Bloodthirst + Adrenal + Relic > Massacre > Massacre > Massacre > Force Scream > Gore > Ravage > Vicious Throw

With this opener, you just have to pray that your slaughter doesn't proc from FC or BA. Then you can take advantage of getting 4 moves in your opening gore window (3 massacres and a Scream) and then get a Ravage and a vicious throw. With the particular rotation in the video (granted it was based off procs so it wouldn't be the same every time) you would run out of your berserk charges once you used dual saber throw, so you would not be able to fit a fourth move in that gore window. Sometimes things can go wrong with the RNG, but I've found this opener to have the smallest RNG associated with it.
yeah exactly thats the rotation i do... expecting FC and BA not to proc Slaughter, and yeah i was trying not to use Bthirst / Relic for a proper rotation, more like a boss rotation, better than a "dummy" rotation (depends on boss when to use Bthirst) but yeah that sounds perfect for a Bthirst opener, i would change Gore + FS + Massacre x3.... that way your next Gore + Ravage + Scream (even if VT crits higher 9k vs 12k.. Scream is a 100% crit chance (this obvisly only if u have the proc otherwise always prioritize VT on gore windows instead of Scream)...) so i would rather have 1 100% crit chance scream on each Gore (15k) with 3x mascre (12k no crit) + Ravage (12k no crit) = 39k total dmg in two gores as MIN. possible dmg... than having 1 100% crit chance scream (7.5k) with 3x mscre (12k) 1 ravage (12k) and 1 20% crit chance VT (3k) = 34.5k total dmg min. without crits.

and yeah the dual Saber throw is depending on fight, i just used as a filler where i had nothing to use and had enough Rage, on the other hand.. Ataru form massacre procs AFTER massacre so i dont know if it works, but during Ravage Gores i like to use Massacre + gore (in between animation and GCD) assuming ataru will gain advantage from the Gore + Ravage (usually interrupted at 0.3-0.5 seconds left at cast, which is just animation, target is already hit by 3 ravage hits) + Scream/VT

TBH i havnt done any HM ops raid with my marauder yet, and i have just done some dummy test (where RNG + GCD bug specially for me clicker sucks) so i dont have any "number" or parse to validate my theory above your numbers, BUT, that theory sounds right for me, not sure what everyone else thinks about it .

EDIT: Rupture can be used in the rotation to gain fury, and dots, in most cases, specially with set bonus i didnt have, i just had kind of a perfect RNG / rage luck in that video which lead me to using DST when starving force + BA and having my Berserks right on time (i would need my 4 set bonus to really know if i was doing the 15 sec window right or wrong, to know if i had to rupture or not) also it was noted pre 2.0 that rupture dots crit 2x more during Gores, not sure if thats still up.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

WiththeForc's Avatar


WiththeForc
05.24.2013 , 01:14 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
...i would change Gore + FS + Massacre x3.... that way your next Gore + Ravage + Scream (even if VT crits higher 9k vs 12k.. Scream is a 100% crit chance (this obvisly only if u have the proc otherwise always prioritize VT on gore windows instead of Scream)...) so i would rather have 1 100% crit chance scream on each Gore (15k) with 3x mascre (12k no crit) + Ravage (12k no crit) = 39k total dmg in two gores as MIN. possible dmg... than having 1 100% crit chance scream (7.5k) with 3x mscre (12k) 1 ravage (12k) and 1 20% crit chance VT (3k) = 34.5k total dmg min. without crits.
2 reasons why you really don't want to use FS > 3x Massacre as your opener.
First off, Gore > Force Scream > Masaccre x3 in your first gore window is not a guaranteed crit. You will only have about a 6% chance (0.2*0.3*100% + RNG) on Force Charge or Battering Assault proccing execute. With Slaughter it's higher (about 9%), so theoretically, if you are not going to proc slaughter, you "shouldn't" proc execute either unless extremely lucky. That would change the damage (given your selected values) to something like this:
1 non-crit force scream (3.7k maybe) + 1 100% crit scream on gore (7.5k) + 3 massacre (12k) + Ravage (12k) = 35.2k
Then on a non-crit, VT will actually do more damage than a non-crit force scream, so it would read more like this on my opener:
1 100% crit chance scream (7.5k) with 3x mscre (12k) 1 ravage (12k) and 1 20% crit chance VT (if scream is selected at 3.7k, VT will go for closer to 4.8k with gore, maybe even 5k) = 36.3k total dmg min. without crits assuming 4.8k on VT
Not a huge difference, but still 1k more damage.

Second problem, but probably even more important, is that you cannot use Force Scream + Massacre x3 in your first gore window and then go into a Gore > Ravage > Force scream without fitting in multiple assaults in the opener. Charge builds 3 rage, battering assault builds 6. So at 9 rage, we hit gore (-1), Force scream (-2 assuming no execute), Massacre x3 (You need 3 rage to activate, then it refunds 1, meaning -2 rage a pop = -6 rage in total). 9 - 1 - 2 - 6 = 0 rage BUT, by the time you get to that last massacre, you will only have 2 rage left, not the 3 needed to hit it. So instead of using 3 massacres in your first gore window, you will have to use 2 massacres and an assault.
So rage managment would look more like this:
9 - 1 - 2 - 3 + 1 - 3 + 1 + 2 = 4 rage
Then you would go into a second gore with ravage and force scream (though force scream actually wouldn't be off cd so you'd have to use some fillers before going into it). By this time the slaughter proc timer will be really screwed up since you would have most likely proc'd it with one of the first 2 massacres, so you will most likely end up proccing slaughter again before the timer runs out and lose out on a second gore.
This rotation would therefore look more like this in terms of damage:
1 non-crit force scream (3.7k maybe) + 1 100% crit scream on gore (7.5k) + 2 massacre (8k) + Assault (1.5k) + Ravage (12k) = 32.7k
By going Massacre x3 then Force Scream, rage management works out like this:
+3 for charge, +6 for battering assault, -9 for massacre, -1 for gore, +3 for massacre refund, -2 for force scream, +1 for execute refund.
3 + 6 - 9 - 1 + 3 - 2 + 1= +1 rage
Then you can go into your second gore rotation:
-1 for gore, +0 for ravage, +0 for vicious throw
1 - 1 + 0 + 0=0
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Carlenux
05.24.2013 , 01:39 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by WiththeForc View Post
2 reasons why you really don't want to use FS > 3x Massacre as your opener.
First off, Gore > Force Scream > Masaccre x3 in your first gore window is not a guaranteed crit. You will only have about a 6% chance (0.2*0.3*100% + RNG) on Force Charge or Battering Assault proccing execute. With Slaughter it's higher (about 9%), so theoretically, if you are not going to proc slaughter, you "shouldn't" proc execute either unless extremely lucky. That would change the damage (given your selected values) to something like this:
1 non-crit force scream (3.7k maybe) + 1 100% crit scream on gore (7.5k) + 3 massacre (12k) + Ravage (12k) = 35.2k
Then on a non-crit, VT will actually do more damage than a non-crit force scream, so it would read more like this on my opener:
1 100% crit chance scream (7.5k) with 3x mscre (12k) 1 ravage (12k) and 1 20% crit chance VT (if scream is selected at 3.7k, VT will go for closer to 4.8k with gore, maybe even 5k) = 36.3k total dmg min. without crits assuming 4.8k on VT
Not a huge difference, but still 1k more damage.

Second problem, but probably even more important, is that you cannot use Force Scream + Massacre x3 in your first gore window and then go into a Gore > Ravage > Force scream without fitting in multiple assaults in the opener. Charge builds 3 rage, battering assault builds 6. So at 9 rage, we hit gore (-1), Force scream (-2 assuming no execute), Massacre x3 (You need 3 rage to activate, then it refunds 1, meaning -2 rage a pop = -6 rage in total). 9 - 1 - 2 - 6 = 0 rage BUT, by the time you get to that last massacre, you will only have 2 rage left, not the 3 needed to hit it. So instead of using 3 massacres in your first gore window, you will have to use 2 massacres and an assault.
So rage managment would look more like this:
9 - 1 - 2 - 3 + 1 - 3 + 1 + 2 = 4 rage
Then you would go into a second gore with ravage and force scream (though force scream actually wouldn't be off cd so you'd have to use some fillers before going into it). By this time the slaughter proc timer will be really screwed up since you would have most likely proc'd it with one of the first 2 massacres, so you will most likely end up proccing slaughter again before the timer runs out and lose out on a second gore.
This rotation would therefore look more like this in terms of damage:
1 non-crit force scream (3.7k maybe) + 1 100% crit scream on gore (7.5k) + 2 massacre (8k) + Assault (1.5k) + Ravage (12k) = 32.7k
By going Massacre x3 then Force Scream, rage management works out like this:
+3 for charge, +6 for battering assault, -9 for massacre, -1 for gore, +3 for massacre refund, -2 for force scream, +1 for execute refund.
3 + 6 - 9 - 1 + 3 - 2 + 1= +1 rage
Then you can go into your second gore rotation:
-1 for gore, +0 for ravage, +0 for vicious throw
1 - 1 + 0 + 0=0
Make sense, i guess i didnt pay attention to the opener part, you are right with the execute, its stupid using it without the proc and its also bad to use massacre before gore (will proc) and screw your double gore window... so as opener make sense, but after that for usual rotation thats the one that should work... maybe even if u got a Execute proc from FC or BA it is viable... also if you use gore FC 3x massacre WITH berserk, u are 1 assault (with berserk) away from doing gore ravage scream (if u start ravage when FS is 2-3 sec Cd remaining, should be fine), without Berserk (usual rotation) the normal gore FS 2/3 massacre + Proc + Gore Ravage Scream (possible berserk in between) VT.. also VT regen 1 rage with the talent... so if you have 4 Rage with gore window (no ravage) gore= 3 VT = 4 + Scream = 3 + massacre = 1.
so your last equation should be -1 gore + 0 ravage + 1 VT 1- 1 +0 +1 = 1 i think .
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