Events bringing the trolls out from under their bridges, and how to fix it.

But they aren't PvE quests.
This is the one sticking point throughout this whole argument.
It doesn't matter how you perceive these quests or if you think they are PVE there are some facts you simply cannot get away from:

The quests have a [PVP] Tag
They take place in a contested, free-for-all area
The reward for completing them is WZ commendations

You can call them PVE as much as you like - it doesn't make it true.

yes they are pve quests... you can do the quests without killing anyone plus killing people doesnt really give u anything anyway since the achievement "kill players on ilum" doesnt really update.

Some background. I just started playing SWTOR a few months ago, and when the last Gree event came along I was not high enough level on my first toon to participate. Ever since then, I've been very excited at the prospect of joining in on a community-wide event, as those types of things are rarely seen outside of MMOs. When this current session of the Gree event was announced, I worked very hard to get my second toon (the first is already 55), up to a minimum of level 45 so I could participate in the event from both sides, Republic and Imperial. My expectation was that events like these would bring out the best in a community, and foster the sort of connection, esprit de corps, and cooperation that you'd see in other less involved events in other types of communities, but on a vast MMO scale. Imagine my disappointment... my frustration really... as instead seeing perhaps some of the worst sorts of behavior in gaming communities on display as the most constant and memorable fixture of this event.

First, let me say that I recognize that no all players are bad. In fact, the overhelming majority just go into this event intending to quest, at minumum, as if it was any other mission series or dialies. There are, however, a small but fiercely dedicated percentage that insist on doing whatever they can to ruin other people's fun. Much of this problem, I think, stems from a set of contradictory goals for players... largely from the "PvP" section of the event.

There are two missions which are flagged as "PvP," and occur only within the PvP area, but are, ostensibly, PvE missions... requiring no intra-player activity whatsoever to complete. If not for occuring in a PvP area, there is nothing "PvP" about these missions. Most players take these missions and do exactly what they objectives tell them to do. Go here, kill some droids, go home. However, as you'd expect, there are players who will forego any missions or objectives, and merely walk around killing other unsuspecting players who are only there to quest.

Now, I have heard arguements from dedicated PvP'ers that walking into a PvP area should cause some expectation of being attacked and killed by other players. While I understand the arguement, the counterarguements are simply too numerous to bother repeating here. Because the missions do not require any interaction between players, ultimately, there is a conflict of interest here. Questers, which make up the vast majority of players (significantly moreso on the PvE server I am on), only go into the PvP area because a quest tells them too, and the quest has nothing to do with PvP combat. Dedicated PvP players go into the PvP area specifically because their intended targets do not fight back, which makes working towards otherwise difficult achievements much much easier.. and of course griefers merely go into the area to ensure that other players simply can't complete their mission objectives. In other words "griefers gonna grief."

There is no reason, and no reward, for a quester to attack another player in the PvP zone nor any reason to believe they'll be attacked at random while working mission objectives, and PvP players get no reward other than progress toward an achievement. Unsuspecting PvE'ers make an easy target for a dedicated group of PvP'ers.
Ultimately, this has lead to a situation of predation on questers, and to a lack of any sort of enjoyment in this event for anyone but the most rotten fruit of the community.


There are several solutions that could be recommended to remedy the problem of conflicting interests.

One of the most simple solutions, especially on PvE servers, it to entirely remove the open-world PvP area of the map. Leave the objectives, mind you, but simply remove the automatic flagging for free-for-all PvP. Since the quests do not require any player-on-player action as it is, it changes nothing in regards to how the quest is run. While certainly this removes some of the enjoyment from predatory PvP players and griefers, it's otherwise universally beneficial for the whole server. However, my feeling is that this does remove an opportunity for some honest PvP action for PvP players looking for some event-worthy experiences.

A second solution. Simply rework the missions so that all current missions occur outside the dedicated PvP arena. Since the objectives are PvE objectives anyway, there's no real reason to have them occur in the PvP arena at all. This lets PvP players keep their arena, including the FFA fights, ... not much different than having the Outlaw's Den on Tattooine... but ensures PvE questers have no reason to go in there. But here too is a missed opportunity.

A third solution. Remove all existing PvE mission objectives from the PvP arena. Leave the PvP quests active in the PvP arena, but beef the missions up to include actual PvP objectives. If you're going to have a mission marked "PvP," maybe it should have some objective that requires you to at least interact with, let alone kill, other players. Maybe build in some sort of FFA group objectives. "Kill X number of opposite faction players." or "Kill X number of your faction's players." Or something more creative. Basically give PvP players something to satiate their bloodlust, but put them on equal footing in engagements with other PvP players, instead of preying on hapless questers to get their kicks. Then, in place of the reworked PvP missions, add 2 new dedicated PvE missions. Perhaps a Heroic 2+, or something unique. This way, PvP players get actually PvP event content, and PvE players have more to do away from the PvP'ers.

Now, any of these 3 solutions eliminates PvP player predation and griefing. Any one would greatly improve the player experience during the event and make it something more memorable for interesting missions than for anger and frustration at the worst a community has to offer. However, since they event is being reworked anyway for the future level 55 interpretation, why not take the opportunity to do something better with it, as the third solution suggests?

yes they are pve quests... you can do the quests without killing anyone plus killing people doesnt really give u anything anyway since the achievement "kill players on ilum" doesnt really update.

I can give it to you that these are more PvE than PvP (even though they give you warzone coms) but they just happen to be in a PvP area, since this area was implemented for PvP players as in it was there way of "giving back" after removing Ilum.

I agree to this.

I thought that PvP was about challenge.

It wasn't.