Let's face it - most people consider it so, even the roleplayers. I've had people argue with me that SWTOR is not a MMORPG. They'll admit to the MMO part, it's the RPG that sticks in their craws. People prefer to think of MMORPGs as video games, like we are all gathered in some huge networked arcade competing with each other and shouting insults and taunts at one another, like some virtual cybercafe in Hong Kong.

 

People who try to remain in character are treated to insults and derision, having their sanity, maturity, and even their sexuality challenged by those who are unwilling to accept the RPG tacked on to the MMO.

 

Roleplayers have been of little help, though. They choose to roleplay in secret, in their guild chats or closed groups, in chat channels designed to serve as virtual meeting places. Those who engage in ERP have not helped, either, as the others have taken it into their heads that the only reason people roleplay at all is to virtually "hook up", or even to find perspective partners online through the game.

 

This leaves the rest of us, those whose simple desire in the game is to achieve immersion, out in the cold. Perhaps that is the word we should use now - immersion - because it describes that which is basic to RP but has become lost over time. It is becoming one with the game environment that matters, to be the Jedi Sentinel or the Sith Lord or the smuggler or whatever who is standing in the sand on Tattooine, or trudging through the ice and snow of Hoth, or the wet jungles of Dromund Kaas, or the wasteland of Balmora.

 

To enter a cantina and relax for a few moments, conversing, planning, then going out and taking on the missions that the locals have granted, and doing so as the character you play, not some d00d running a toon, is what roleplay used to be. That is what made the RP servers of games like SWG and DAOC, because most people bought into the idea that this is part of the game or at least respected it. Then, if you talked about Chuck Norris in Main or General you were barked down as an idiot. Now, if you speak of the Force in General, you are barked down as an idiot.

 

So, perhaps we should adopt "seeking immersion" as a way to describe playing an MMORPG as it was initially intended, rather than wave the old banner that is covered with too many stains to be of any use going forward?

Edited May 22, 2013 by Suilebhain

Yep you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's going to take a community effort to fix it though, and I'm not quite sure that's there yet.

Sadly, I have to say "Here here!" to you.

 

I'm guilty of only rping with a select group because the staggering immaturity and lack of understanding on Progenitor has forced me and my closest friend, both of us having migrated to Argent Dawn, to roleplay with one another in place of attempting actual conversation with anyone. Because, put simply, all the gear makes for fantastic character gear, and its hard to tell anyone apart.

 

I just can't fathom why people select a roleplay server when they're adverse or just stupid enough to go there "4 the lulz". I guess that with the depth of the lore in SW:ToR, I held a hope that there would be an abundance of people interested in roleplaying, due to the crowd that the Star Wars universe attracts.

 

Sadly, it seems I was wrong.

In my opinion, RP was more commonplace when RPG's were only frequented by the gaming "nerds". With the popularity of console gaming, and then PC gaming, a lot more "normal" folks are now playing. Starwars attracted even more people who never would have considered an MMORPG otherwise. Myself, for example. To people like me, RP in a game is like those guys who get dressed up and have fake sword fights; friggin hilarious. As such, subject to ridicule. For that reason, I don't play on an RP server.

 

I don't think that the people trying to RP on an RP server should be persecuted for it, but I'd probably be making fun of them anyways.

That's a good post and I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm going to single out one paragraph because I have a bit to say about it.

 

People who try to remain in character are treated to insults and derision, having their sanity, maturity, and even their sexuality challenged by those who are unwilling to accept the RPG tacked on to the MMO.

 

I think it's a minority who do the negative stuff. Myself, I'll either play along (usually poorly, but, hey, I try) or ignore it. It's a truly weak-minded individual who derives his own pleasure from attempting to inflict unhappiness upon others.

 

In my experience, role-players are actually the most sane, most mature, most sexually confident individuals I've encountered. I contend that through the process of imagining someone else's point of view - what made them, how they act, WHY they act that way, WHO they are, that builds this strength of character.

I play no an RP server, and i still get this... People have the xXxSuperVaederxXx type of names and treat the RP servers as any other PvE server.

And if you should roleplay openly you will get mocked, interrupted and generally harassed 50% of the time.

 

No wonder the roleplayers shy away from the game.

 

Ive even been met with confusion and belittlement when asking if anyone wanted to do an "in character" run of a flashpoint in fleet.

On a roleplaying server mind you.

 

Then it doesnt get better by the fact that there are different schools of thoughts when it comes to roleplaying.

There are those that have it in their heads that they can completely disregard the actual game and run around with their level 10 characters claiming to be immensely powerful sith lords that can snap your neck with a flick of their wrist.

Opposing them are the die-hard game-bound roleplayers that feel that you cannot be more powerful than your actual in-game character is.

Id say 50% of roleplayers fall into either of those groups and the rest are somewhere in between.

 

And then there are the ones that for some odd reason dont think that names like "ImAsuperFlyGuy" breaks immerson and that their character can be called that when roleplaying.

 

TL;DR Not only are roleplayers mocked on their own servers, but there is quite a bit of infighting as well.

That's a good post and I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm going to single out one paragraph because I have a bit to say about it.

 

 

 

I think it's a minority who do the negative stuff. Myself, I'll either play along (usually poorly, but, hey, I try) or ignore it. It's a truly weak-minded individual who derives his own pleasure from attempting to inflict unhappiness upon others.

 

In my experience, role-players are actually the most sane, most mature, most sexually confident individuals I've encountered. I contend that through the process of imagining someone else's point of view - what made them, how they act, WHY they act that way, WHO they are, that builds this strength of character.

 

I agree, especially with the last paragraph.

 

I'm not on a roleplaying server as I don't really roleplay, but it's sad to hear that even on an roleplaying server, people get mocked for... roleplaying. Personally, I think people should get warnings/temporary bans for that sort of thing. There are different server types for a reason. (A change in attitude would be optimal, of course, but realistically, the only thing that could be done is stricter regulation.)

Now, if you speak of the Force in General, you are barked down as an idiot.

Not an idiot, but General Chat is not the place for IC talk.

 

The reason I do not RP is that I don't like tavern-only RP and very few people want to RP IC all the time. It makes questing take forever to RP during quests. I certainly don't have a problem with that, because it's their game.

Edited May 22, 2013 by branmakmuffin

Not an idiot, but General Chat is not the place for IC talk.

 

Other than the stream of abuse that generally follows, I never understood this.

 

If someone wants to say "I need help removing Republic Scum" as a call to PvP on Tattoine or "I've grown more powerful in the Force" rather than "DING!", why is this unacceptable? It is more acceptable to get into stupid trash-talk conversations pertaining to other peoples' mothers, or talk about Chuck Norris? Come on!

 

If there are no rules pertaining to General, THERE ARE NO RULES. That includes whether to speak in character, or talk like a fool.

The reason I do not RP is that I don't like tavern-only RP and very few people want to RP IC all the time. It makes questing take forever to RP during quests. I certainly don't have a problem with that, because it's their game.

 

I agree with this 100%, which is why it is hard for me as a roleplayer to find a RP guild. Too many times I've joined a guild, they hang with you the first night for an hour or two, then it's off to the pub to flex their muscles in front of the girls. When I ran guilds in the past, I would have characters spread across the spectrum so that I could run with new recruits of whatever level. That takes a small amount of self-sacrifice that most do not wish to accept. Sure, its a bit immersion breaking for the person having to change characters, but it only takes a few moments to get the feel for the new character, like wearing a mask.

 

Anyway, I didn't mean to start a tirade about how others play or do not play. My main point was that maybe we who are interested in in-game immersion need to start using that term more often as a way to identify to others what we are trying to gain. "LFG immersion group for missions" would generally mean that it is IC and doesn't break up the moment the mission requirements are fulfilled. I mean, go back to the quest giver in case there is Social to be gained, FFS!

If this is the case it is a shame IMO. Some of my best times in online games was when I could role play.

 

I remember my favorite back and forth was an in character chat with a jedi in SWG. We never fought each other, but tried to turn one another.

 

It was a great exchange of wills. I miss that.

My experiences with casual RP (remarks in-character) have been quite positive, and I am on a PvE server. If anything, a well-chosen in-character remark in /general can stop a flame war!

 

For anything longer than one or two remarks, I think guilds or friends are much more appropriate than strangers. Immersion with 10,000 random strangers is theoretically impossible. Humans don't work this way. I don't like to use LFG tools for raids, and I would not RP beyond a couple of very casual remarks with strangers, for the very same reason.

There's no fixing it. Roleplayers over the age of 16 are f*%*ing weird. Every time I walk into my comic book shop which also doubles as the local gaming store, its all the most hardcore nerds and geeks that have no life outside of that store and/or the computer. When I see a roleplayer in Swtor I think of those Local Gaming Store losers. I think most people do too.

Other than the stream of abuse that generally follows, I never understood this.

 

If someone wants to say "I need help removing Republic Scum" as a call to PvP on Tattoine or "I've grown more powerful in the Force" rather than "DING!", why is this unacceptable? It is more acceptable to get into stupid trash-talk conversations pertaining to other peoples' mothers, or talk about Chuck Norris? Come on!

If people are jumping on someone for one-time quasi-IC statements like the ones you post, there's no excuse for that. But people get just as much crap for posting "DING!" as for "I have grown more powerful in the Force," because no one in GC cares that someone they don't know just leveled a character in a computer game.

 

If there are no rules pertaining to General, THERE ARE NO RULES. That includes whether to speak in character, or talk like a fool.

It's not because there are no rules. From an IC perspective, how can you justify IC-speak in GC when it goes to the entire planet? Are you RPing a telepath?

RP is a subjective thing. If you are opening up yourself to a "public" avenue of communication, you are bound to find people who arent subjectively participateing in your RP. Everquest had an OOC channel for a reason.

 

Besides, who's to say they arent roleplaying a real life person trapped in a video game?

Edited May 22, 2013 by Spatology

If someone wants to say "I need help removing Republic Scum" as a call to PvP on Tattoine or "I've grown more powerful in the Force" rather than "DING!", why is this unacceptable?

 

Because people want to scan chats for info quickly. However, you can have both. I have pretty good luck with messages like:

"LF2M Gree Event PvP area. Let's kill the pub scum dead!"

People RP with that in /general, a bit, on my PvE server. I maybe had one complaint in the whole year, and even then I am not sure if it was a joke. That's because people can get the info they want quickly, as well.

When was it not a dirty word?

There's no fixing it. Roleplayers over the age of 16 are f*%*ing weird. Every time I walk into my comic book shop which also doubles as the local gaming store, its all the most hardcore nerds and geeks that have no life outside of that store and/or the computer. When I see a roleplayer in Swtor I think of those Local Gaming Store losers. I think most people do too.

You need to get around more. It must get so cramped living in that tiny, little world.

Edited May 22, 2013 by branmakmuffin

You need to get around more. It must get so cramped living in that tiny, little world.

 

I get around the real world. Try it sometime if you're not too busy pretending.

I get around the real world.

Just not very much of it or very often, evidently. There's more in the world than comic book shops, game stores and 7-11, you know.

Just not very much of it or very often, evidently. There's more in the world than comic book shops, game stores and 7-11, you know.

 

Its the only place I run into losers like that.

Edited May 22, 2013 by AGSThomas

Its the only place I run into losers like that.

When in Rome ...

When in Rome ...

 

When pretending to be in Rome...

I RP with other RPers. The problem that I see has nothing to do with ERP or private chat in groups. It is about people not being able to tell a story, not knowing enough about the lore and younger people who are not adept at RP trying to RP and trust me, I'm glad they're trying. Some of us came from D&D backgrounds and some didn't. I have to admit, I RP in group chat mostly because there are people out there that are critical, trolling, etc. I went to the mixer on Nar Shadaa and stood at a table. Instead of talking to me, they talked around me even though I said hello. Then I said, "sorry I must be interrupting your private conversation" and walked away only to see in /s what is her problem. The RP community needs to loosen up and become extroverted.

When pretending to be in Rome...

Pretend to be a Roman.

 

I RP with other RPers. The problem that I see has nothing to do with ERP or private chat in groups. It is about people not being able to tell a story, not knowing enough about the lore and younger people who are not adept at RP trying to RP and trust me, I'm glad they're trying. Some of us came from D&D backgrounds and some didn't. I have to admit, I RP in group chat mostly because there are people out there that are critical, trolling, etc. I went to the mixer on Nar Shadaa and stood at a table. Instead of talking to me, they talked around me even though I said hello. Then I said, "sorry I must be interrupting your private conversation" and walked away only to see in /s what is her problem. The RP community needs to loosen up and become extroverted.

I find many RPers to be rather self-centered. They are only too happy to regale others with tales of their character's mightiness, but are not very interested in listening to others. Also, too many players insist their characters are the pre-load of Anakin Skywalker (or some similarly hyper-powerful person). Sure, our characters are not scrubs, but they can't all be the saviors of the galaxy, either.

Edited May 22, 2013 by branmakmuffin