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Is the old republic not old enough?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Is the old republic not old enough?

coolmccoolson's Avatar


coolmccoolson
05.17.2013 , 10:55 AM | #1
To me this game feels way more like new star wars than KOTOR. Its been years since Ive played KOTOR but I dont remember any of this stuff about separatists and troopers that look exactly like clone troopers. There were mandolorians, regular soldiers, and sith. I find it hard to swallow that the republic held onto that trooper design for 3000 years, and I keep seeing a lot of technology and designs that I would not expect to exist yet. I liked KOTOR because it was a completely different look on the Star Wars universe, but this game is feeling like it was set not long before Phantom Menace.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
05.17.2013 , 01:04 PM | #2
Yeah, people have been making the complaint that TOR looks more like the trilogies than KotOR did. And in some ways, it's very valid, because the devs sort of twisted lore to get things to look more like the Star Wars everybody knew and loved from the movies, regardless of whether the timeline worked out.

But the thing is, that's what KotOR itself did a decade ago, too. In Tales of the Jedi, which told the story of the Great Sith War, the aesthetic was very different, almost archaic, compared to KotOR's trilogy-style blaster weapons and clothing. Take a look at Ulic Qel-Droma's invasion of Coruscant. Looks kind of out of place when you compare it even to KotOR, right?

It is what it is. And people have spent a lot of time justifying it in Star Wars EU lore. Take a look at the Essential Guide to Warfare, which specifically had to deal with the issue of reconciling the video games' tech with that of Tales of the Jedi. Here's a link to Jason Fry and Paul Urquhart's endnotes, published on Fry's blog, where Urquhart talks about the mechanics of doing that realistically.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

AlexDougherty's Avatar


AlexDougherty
05.18.2013 , 02:42 AM | #3
Don't view it as holding the same trooper design for 3000 years, view as the same design being cycled back into use.
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Through strength, I may gain power. Through power, I may gain victory.
But for every enemy fallen, a new foe rises.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.18.2013 , 06:57 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexDougherty View Post
Don't view it as holding the same trooper design for 3000 years, view as the same design being cycled back into use.
Besides this, from a marketing standpoint, what do people want to play? That's right! Characters from the movies!

What do people constantly ask for? That's right! Designs from the movies!

Putting it in the past continues to be the worst idea ever, as they'll let it slide on some outfits, but on ship designs? X-Wings, Imperial Shuttle, where are the ships I love?!
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Pingonaut's Avatar


Pingonaut
05.18.2013 , 08:37 PM | #5
Even in our history, aesthetics are reused after a while. Think of it as this but on a longer timeline.

Also, the Empire is eventually merged with the Republic, which is why the Republic has ships similar to the current Empire. It's why they didn't keep the old design (the design of ships the Rebels had), because it works.

Yermog's Avatar


Yermog
05.18.2013 , 10:15 PM | #6
They retro-fit the games to the movies, basically. Because really, while many of us played and loved KOTOR, most people just see Star Wars and go from there. They don't care about the history as much as those who played KOTOR did. And from what I've seen, KOTOR has little to no influence in this universe, which makes me sad since this was supposed to be based heavily on the events of those stories.

Jemfisto's Avatar


Jemfisto
05.18.2013 , 10:26 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Yermog View Post
They retro-fit the games to the movies, basically. Because really, while many of us played and loved KOTOR, most people just see Star Wars and go from there. They don't care about the history as much as those who played KOTOR did. And from what I've seen, KOTOR has little to no influence in this universe, which makes me sad since this was supposed to be based heavily on the events of those stories.
This is just not true. Yes, they did merge some of the original movie elements into the Old Republic, but you have KOTOR influence everywhere, but mostly in Empire areas.. Tales of the Jedi armor setpieces are everywhere, pureblood sith running around, korriban, dromund kaas... a TON of areas have the Old Republic feel to them.

Just check out this all of these screenshots http://imgur.com/a/IHXIl

In fact its mind bobbling how you can even say that... everywhere I go in this game I am reminded of KOTOR and Tales of the Jedi.

Jemfisto's Avatar


Jemfisto
05.18.2013 , 10:40 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Yeah, people have been making the complaint that TOR looks more like the trilogies than KotOR did. And in some ways, it's very valid, because the devs sort of twisted lore to get things to look more like the Star Wars everybody knew and loved from the movies, regardless of whether the timeline worked out.

But the thing is, that's what KotOR itself did a decade ago, too. In Tales of the Jedi, which told the story of the Great Sith War, the aesthetic was very different, almost archaic, compared to KotOR's trilogy-style blaster weapons and clothing. Take a look at Ulic Qel-Droma's invasion of Coruscant. Looks kind of out of place when you compare it even to KotOR, right?

It is what it is. And people have spent a lot of time justifying it in Star Wars EU lore. Take a look at the Essential Guide to Warfare, which specifically had to deal with the issue of reconciling the video games' tech with that of Tales of the Jedi. Here's a link to Jason Fry and Paul Urquhart's endnotes, published on Fry's blog, where Urquhart talks about the mechanics of doing that realistically.
Man I love when someone knows a lot about this kinda stuff . I take the more movie like Jedi in KOTOR to be explained in the Redemption arc ToTJ when Nomi Sunrider mentions "we will create a new Jedi Council" during the Jedi convocation. A lot of reform is implied with her leadership. But yeah, the more ancient technology in ToTJ is not easily explained, but I can overlook aesthetic differences in different material, as long as the story is cohesive!

Since you seem to know a lot about the Old Republic era, what do you think happened to Nomi and her daughter during KOTOR and KOTOR 2?

Yermog's Avatar


Yermog
05.18.2013 , 10:44 PM | #9
Spoiler ahead.

I don't see nearly enough of KOTOR as they advertised. They have Pureblood Sith in other incarnations. They have Taris, the have Tatooine, everything in the game they have somewhere else. Revan is mentioned a few times in the game, but not nearly enough to make me think that what he did has really impacted the current playthroughs. None of the classes stories have to do with Revan. And (SPOILER ALERT) in the one instance where Revan shows up, he dies. And none of his companions outside of HK-51, who is just a model of HK-47, is even mentioned, at least not in the main stories.

It feels like they toss his name around a few times, but in a passing comment kind of way. "Revan was here once, now lets move on to something else important."

I'm sorry, I just don't see enough of KOTOR in there for me to feel like this is a true sequel.

Jemfisto's Avatar


Jemfisto
05.18.2013 , 11:06 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Yermog View Post
Spoiler ahead.

I don't see nearly enough of KOTOR as they advertised. They have Pureblood Sith in other incarnations. They have Taris, the have Tatooine, everything in the game they have somewhere else. Revan is mentioned a few times in the game, but not nearly enough to make me think that what he did has really impacted the current playthroughs. None of the classes stories have to do with Revan. And (SPOILER ALERT) in the one instance where Revan shows up, he dies. And none of his companions outside of HK-51, who is just a model of HK-47, is even mentioned, at least not in the main stories.

It feels like they toss his name around a few times, but in a passing comment kind of way. "Revan was here once, now lets move on to something else important."

I'm sorry, I just don't see enough of KOTOR in there for me to feel like this is a true sequel.
Well this does take place 300 years after KOTOR. Have you read the Revan novel? Because the JK story is heavily tied in and basically IS kotor3.