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Bloodthirst needs a Global Cooldown


shyroman's Avatar


shyroman
05.15.2013 , 04:00 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
I guess it depends on the fight. If there's a section that would genuinely benefit from 30-60s of sustained increased output, instead of a narrow window of 15-20s increased output, then yes this tactic could be meaningful.
I don't think there is any boss that has a burst phase that lasts longer than ~20 sec except for burn phases at end, but i might be wrong

As for the rotation, that's comme-ci/comme-ca. You'd have to work out how much the Fury-blockage reduces damage output and weigh that against how much BT increases it, then further split the analysis by spec choice, to see what you're really getting.
I think it lowers dps if they doesn't have frenzy to give them more fury, but that is just my experience and I can't confirm that for anyone else

As far as Frenzy: with BT on 5m CD and Frenzy on 2.5m CD, it should be plausible to have a Frenzy-chain ready for each BT, right?
yes, but that would only work for 2 out of the 4 bloodthirsts in the 5 min phases

But I'm still curious about the people who keep saying "BT only affects your actual group", which drops the plausible Op-wide uptime to 30s in an 8-man. Unless, I guess, you structured it as "Tank / Tank / Heal / Heal" in one group and "DPS / DPS / DPS / DPS" in the other group... I guess that's plausible enough.
lots of groups like to run the 4 dps in one group mainly because of the benefit of bloodthirst, but I don't think it would work with the 4 marauders affecting each others fury buildup

I know I'm meandering a bit, I'm not very experienced with organized Ops, but I just find this topic interesting and want to explore it more.
Well that's wonderful, i wish that everyone would explore things that they don't completely understand in this game, especially the new players. I'm with you on this, i'll be keeping tabs on this thread to see if anyone can pull up on some hard evidence because right now i'm just saying what i think would happen. And i'm interested if it really is true that stacking marauders is the best.
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Ryann-Sniper; Apophas-Marauder and many more alts
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Grimsblood's Avatar


Grimsblood
05.15.2013 , 04:20 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by manco-capac View Post
OP is right. Full marauders/sentinals dps raids are running rampage and that's the only setup you see every day. Nothing else since makes things so easy and awesome.
You obviously haven't ran with a raid full of Gunslingers. Try it sometime...............

@Shyroman From my experience, stacking 2 sents/maras in a single group can ruin both their dps. When I was running progression on my sentinel back for HM TFB and NiM EC I would complain about having another one in dropping my dps build up. I would get to 28 Centering and then pop goes an inspiration and I was screwed. It wasn't until both of us worked our rotation timings down for each fight that we were successful. Now stack 4 Maras/Sents together.....and well, you mess with their standard rotation and furry build............not the smartest thing.
DPS is science. Healing is art. Tanking is strategy.
Hippolytà - Level 50 Sentinel - Grimsblood - Level 55 Sage
Saphyria - Level 55 Sniper - Fenrîr - Level 55 Gunslinger

shyroman's Avatar


shyroman
05.15.2013 , 04:46 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Grimsblood View Post
You obviously haven't ran with a raid full of Gunslingers. Try it sometime...............

@Shyroman From my experience, stacking 2 sents/maras in a single group can ruin both their dps. When I was running progression on my sentinel back for HM TFB and NiM EC I would complain about having another one in dropping my dps build up. I would get to 28 Centering and then pop goes an inspiration and I was screwed. It wasn't until both of us worked our rotation timings down for each fight that we were successful. Now stack 4 Maras/Sents together.....and well, you mess with their standard rotation and furry build............not the smartest thing.
Thank you for the clarification, I never really had much experience with it since the only time where I noticed it was when a new marauder like to use predation whenever it was up
Ryann-Sniper; Apophas-Marauder and many more alts
Dark Eclipse-Jedi Covenant

Korse's Avatar


Korse
05.15.2013 , 05:10 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Grimsblood View Post
You obviously haven't ran with a raid full of Gunslingers. Try it sometime...............

@Shyroman From my experience, stacking 2 sents/maras in a single group can ruin both their dps. When I was running progression on my sentinel back for HM TFB and NiM EC I would complain about having another one in dropping my dps build up. I would get to 28 Centering and then pop goes an inspiration and I was screwed. It wasn't until both of us worked our rotation timings down for each fight that we were successful. Now stack 4 Maras/Sents together.....and well, you mess with their standard rotation and furry build............not the smartest thing.
Honestly this sounds more like a problem with group coordination than bloodthirst lowering the threat of all marauders in a group.

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
05.15.2013 , 05:58 PM | #55
This ifrit noob must have never been in a HM before. Dude probably struggles in SM.

On my mara I lose dps when I have BT up, I agree with the rest of you.

ssfish's Avatar


ssfish
05.15.2013 , 07:37 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
As soon as they take away your ability to respec to tank role, then I'll be okay giving up utility. Simple as that. And utility is not a factor. There's a common statement: "Take the player, not the class". Our guild would not make someone reroll to Marauder if we had none in our group, nor would we take one who was subpar over a non-marauder who did good dps. So your utility argument is sort of moot.
This concept / argument seems to be getting overlooked, so I figured I'd emphasize it.
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TrillOG-'s Avatar


TrillOG-
05.15.2013 , 07:59 PM | #57
Alright, this is ridiculous. My main on pub side is a sent, imp marauder. I have one of each class except for a sage when it comes to dps, and 3 tanks, so I'm not some sole sentinel trying to prove a point. Bloodthirst is a 15% damage boost for 15 seconds with a 5 minute cd. That 5 minute cd prevents it from being used in most fights more than once, so assuming everyone was perfect you have a minute of 15% dps. Not a single fight requires you to have 15% more dps, and if this is the deciding factor in if you clear or not, your group needs to work something out. In exchange for this 15% dps, you are losing the 20% damage reduction for 15 seconds from a slinger, cc on 90% of trash mobs, the lack of an off-taunt, stealth rez's, etc. If you think about it, wouldn't it be more OP to bring 4 scoundrel dps? They would be able to stealth rez everyone who goes down almost all the time, AND pass off heals... if I wasn't in the middle of s&v I'd list more.
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Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
05.15.2013 , 09:01 PM | #58
In addition to the above, you also (as has been mentioned several times) kill Fury/Centering generation for a whole minute.

On top of all of this, you'll still lose DPS versus a balanced composition on some fights because they just favour ranged so heavily.
Aisev -:- Seer Sage Si'ki -:- Darkness Assassin

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
05.15.2013 , 09:59 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by TrillOG- View Post
Alright, this is ridiculous. My main on pub side is a sent, imp marauder. I have one of each class except for a sage when it comes to dps, and 3 tanks, so I'm not some sole sentinel trying to prove a point. Bloodthirst is a 15% damage boost for 15 seconds with a 5 minute cd. That 5 minute cd prevents it from being used in most fights more than once, so assuming everyone was perfect you have a minute of 15% dps. Not a single fight requires you to have 15% more dps, and if this is the deciding factor in if you clear or not, your group needs to work something out. In exchange for this 15% dps, you are losing the 20% damage reduction for 15 seconds from a slinger, cc on 90% of trash mobs, the lack of an off-taunt, stealth rez's, etc. If you think about it, wouldn't it be more OP to bring 4 scoundrel dps? They would be able to stealth rez everyone who goes down almost all the time, AND pass off heals... if I wasn't in the middle of s&v I'd list more.
Agreed all needed

Grimsblood's Avatar


Grimsblood
05.15.2013 , 10:07 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Korse View Post
Honestly this sounds more like a problem with group coordination than bloodthirst lowering the threat of all marauders in a group.
With two maras.....yes a coordination issue. With 4 you start to loose fury build which is bad. (Don't forget to take into the 4% damage boost from the 4 piece)
DPS is science. Healing is art. Tanking is strategy.
Hippolytà - Level 50 Sentinel - Grimsblood - Level 55 Sage
Saphyria - Level 55 Sniper - Fenrîr - Level 55 Gunslinger