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Can't do flashpoints for 3 days now....

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Can't do flashpoints for 3 days now....

lironBD's Avatar


lironBD
05.07.2013 , 04:00 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyVix View Post
If you have specific requirements for the other members of your group, I'd say that a GF PUG isn't the right place to find your team.

Some of us know how to play, but may have to make adjustments based upon how the group is performing. As an example, several weeks ago I was in a group as a DPS vanguard. As we worked our way through the flashpoint, it was blatantly obvious that the tank was incompetent, and incapable of holding any aggro during his "pulls." After several close calls, I quickly respeced and switched to a tanking stance. The other DPS immediately started in about me being a noob for using the wrong stance, however being in that stance was what it took to hold/kill mobs while protecting the healer and other DPS. The tank led. The tank held his one silver mob, and I rounded up the rest while we chopped everything down. Some will say that I was wrong. I contend that I did what was necessary, including switching stances, to prevent multiple party wipes.

Again, I know what I'm doing, so please don't call me a dumb *** to prove that you know it all. You're the one having party problems. I simply adjust and power through it.
no need to get all touchy just read my post and see that I wrote that only time dps should use tank spec is if off-tanking is needed, exactly what you gave as an example.

Have you ever played with sorcerer madness spec'd as healer for the group? I had plenty of those at my time.. it's bad...

Using dirty language or putting words in my mouth do not serve you.

This game is 90% mechanics 10% skill. you use tank with dps stance you screw it for your team, you heal without proper heal spec you screw it for your team.

So when you play a game of mechanics extensive gameplay you need to learn the mechanics at some point and not going e-peen stroking on us.
Europe -> The Red Ecplipse
Oracans-> Sith Pureblood Inquisitor Sorcerer

http://www.swtor.com/r/NP7bNn \ Buddy invite

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
05.07.2013 , 04:01 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Complaints with a certain measure of validity. Welcome to SWTOR. The most successful single player RPG pretending to be an MMO.

Naturally I'm kidding. The game did start as pretty hostile to social aspects of gaming, so the mentality of singular play is going to take a while to wear off. The current devs seem much more interested in improving the game and making it more casual and social friendly than the prior team and their "its how we designed it, tough" attitude.
I hate to break it to you, but what OP described is not SWTOR exclusive or started out in this game. players like that existed long before the SWTOR, so this mentality is not due to TOR being solo friendly. I've ran into all these types in multiple MMO's that I played, even once that don't have groupfinder that throws groups together randomly. and I keep wondering why do people claim that TOR was hostile to grouping? I've been playing since early launch and its the only game where I consistently willingly grouped for questing without feeling like I was forced into it, because not only there's plenty of group content, but the game rewards you for grouping. early on its even super easy to travel to whatever group quest you are doing, it's only on later planets that traveling to certain heroics can become a drag.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.07.2013 , 04:12 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
I hate to break it to you, but what OP described is not SWTOR exclusive or started out in this game. players like that existed long before the SWTOR, so this mentality is not due to TOR being solo friendly.
You are expressing your opinion, which you are entitled to naturally. And I do not agree with it completely, though I think it has some validity. In this game it is more prevalent specifically due to the games original design flaws which are now being corrected.

Quote:
I've ran into all these types in multiple MMO's that I played, even once that don't have groupfinder that throws groups together randomly.
That's fair I should concede. They do exist everywhere.

Quote:
and I keep wondering why do people claim that TOR was hostile to grouping? I've been playing since early launch and its the only game where I consistently willingly grouped for questing without feeling like I was forced into it, because not only there's plenty of group content, but the game rewards you for grouping. early on its even super easy to travel to whatever group quest you are doing, it's only on later planets that traveling to certain heroics can become a drag.
Because it is, or more accurately was hostile to social interaction. The game just added its first guild perk. No chat bubbles. No LFG channel. Fully voiced dialog that makes it difficult to interact with others at times when running heroics and flashpoints. Companion play that allows players to solo most of the game in what often turns out to be a hostile gaming environment, promoting solo attitudes. Little to no social aspects to crafting. Lack of a LFG tool at launch. Empty servers....the list goes on and on.

It is not as much how it is now, but in the past this game was isolationist in its design. It just didn't promote social interaction like other games, so players got used to going it alone, and that habit bleeds into group play.

It is becoming less and less apparent IMO as time passes and the game becomes more social friendly. Chat bubbles in group way would go a long way toward that goal IMO.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
05.07.2013 , 04:29 PM | #24
chat bubbles. what's with obsession with chat bubbles? I know some people like them and more power to them, but personally, i never had any issues with interacting with people without chat bubbles. I hate the things actually, find them distracting and make sure to disable them in every game that I play, that has that option.

looking for group global channel would have been great, but apparently other games are doing away with it as well for whatever reason. there WAS a lfg tool at launch. it just required people to actively use it, but it seems that people have gotten so ... spoiled lately, they couldn't be bothered to go into it and see if anyone was looking for group for the same thing they were. automatic grouping or bust >_>. at least people still used general chat.

chatting while grouping is discouraged? how? fully voiced conversations in my experience actually promote chat responses. I've had conversations with people that started BECAUSE of in game cutscenes and conversations.

guild perks are relatively new thing. used to be the only guild perk of any significance was a guild tag and guild chat that didn't require creation of special channel. aside from you know, having people online to talk to and play with.

social aspects to crafting, exactly what are we talking about here? people still trade, people still sell to each other, buy from each other, advertize crafting services, and have been since launch. you mean DEPENDING on other people to craft, or wait.. I think i know... SWG right? you are looking for THEIR crafting system. but the thing is, TOR's crafting system is no more antisocial than that multiple other MMO's.

as for servers, they weren't empty, they weren't meant to be empty. BIoware just overextended themselves, but when they realized that - they did server merges.

and again, in my experience TOR is no worse at promoting social experience than any other game, in fact that it was better and still getting better then some of the other games on the market that practically encourage you to play alone by making grouping as unnecessary as possible, (like guild wars and their group quests that you don't have to group for or talk for or socialize at all, really)

what they did though is made grouping optional. attractive, but optional. and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact its loads more casual friendly that games where you cannot accomplish much of anything without a group.

so no. its not TOR promoting people being more solo oriented in group play. heck, companions go a long way to teach you about working with someone else along, even if its just AI. people who are silent people who don't listen, people who kamikaze? they do that because that's what they are. they would do the same thing in any MMO' they would have tried, they just possibly wouldn't stick around for long in some of them.

tzagheru's Avatar


tzagheru
05.07.2013 , 05:31 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by lironBD View Post
Very frustrating...

I took the time to level up my smuggler so I'll have complete 8 stories, so I'm doing the flashpoints as I get them.

To my surprise it seems bad players are all over the place...
And by bad I mean:
* The silent one - this players do not speak, use chat or look at the chat at all.
* The kamikaze - this guys think they are rambo or something charging at everything without waiting for the other group members.
* The Players with short term memory - this guys will be mostly tanks and healers, and I'll give an example: Just did Mando raiders story mod and we are at the 4 imps team boss, tank charge at one of them leaving the others to attack the healer. The healer after first, second and third wipe change his tactics and listen to the other player's tips and last longer while the tank keep doing the same all over again and again and again. after 5 wipes in which at one of them me and the other dps managed to solo the last of the bosses to 100hp before we wiped I had to quit.

So for few days now I can't get a competent team which do the bare minimum of learning from their mistakes and try to improve on the next try, worst then those above are the obvious trolling types which tank without a shield or healer with dps tree on their skills.

I call out to whomever read this... If you do low level or any level group content it's not about the mission or e-peen stroking is about the - group. so Start communicating with each other and work as a group.

rant over.

f2p brings the best quality players..
Quote: Originally Posted by ObiJuanShenobi View Post
Honestly, you should apologize to Bioware for trying to run their game on a system or internet connection that is obviously the absolute shiz.
Biodrone nailed it. This is correct.

discbox's Avatar


discbox
05.07.2013 , 05:38 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by scraycroft View Post
Re-roll as Tank or healer and you don't have to worry about incompetence.
Did you read this:

Quote: Originally Posted by lironBD View Post
I took the time to level up my smuggler so I'll have complete 8 stories...
?

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.07.2013 , 05:42 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
chat bubbles. what's with obsession with chat bubbles? I know some people like them and more power to them, but personally, i never had any issues with interacting with people without chat bubbles. I hate the things actually, find them distracting and make sure to disable them in every game that I play, that has that option.

looking for group global channel would have been great, but apparently other games are doing away with it as well for whatever reason. there WAS a lfg tool at launch. it just required people to actively use it, but it seems that people have gotten so ... spoiled lately, they couldn't be bothered to go into it and see if anyone was looking for group for the same thing they were. automatic grouping or bust >_>. at least people still used general chat.

chatting while grouping is discouraged? how? fully voiced conversations in my experience actually promote chat responses. I've had conversations with people that started BECAUSE of in game cutscenes and conversations.

guild perks are relatively new thing. used to be the only guild perk of any significance was a guild tag and guild chat that didn't require creation of special channel. aside from you know, having people online to talk to and play with.

social aspects to crafting, exactly what are we talking about here? people still trade, people still sell to each other, buy from each other, advertize crafting services, and have been since launch. you mean DEPENDING on other people to craft, or wait.. I think i know... SWG right? you are looking for THEIR crafting system. but the thing is, TOR's crafting system is no more antisocial than that multiple other MMO's.

as for servers, they weren't empty, they weren't meant to be empty. BIoware just overextended themselves, but when they realized that - they did server merges.

and again, in my experience TOR is no worse at promoting social experience than any other game, in fact that it was better and still getting better then some of the other games on the market that practically encourage you to play alone by making grouping as unnecessary as possible, (like guild wars and their group quests that you don't have to group for or talk for or socialize at all, really)

what they did though is made grouping optional. attractive, but optional. and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact its loads more casual friendly that games where you cannot accomplish much of anything without a group.

so no. its not TOR promoting people being more solo oriented in group play. heck, companions go a long way to teach you about working with someone else along, even if its just AI. people who are silent people who don't listen, people who kamikaze? they do that because that's what they are. they would do the same thing in any MMO' they would have tried, they just possibly wouldn't stick around for long in some of them.
You know, its funny. Here we are arguing about why people don't listen in this game and here we are not really listening to each other. I say the game was designed to promote solo play and that has become the norm, you say thats not true. Both seem to have valid arguments IMO...and you make some reasonable points.

And yet we circle back to the same thing....you seem to think it is caused by people being people, seemingly with no solution. That's seems rather pessimistic IMO. Also seems rather forgiving of this game in it's early state. To say the servers were not empty.....well that seems just downright ludicrous, like those folks that used to spout that this game had 2 million players when it obviously did not and most certainly did not deserve even half of the players it had IMO.

I just think the way to respect your opinion is just to agree that we do not agree and end the discussion between us on this particular matter at that. I appreciate the discussion.

Uldihaa's Avatar


Uldihaa
05.07.2013 , 05:56 PM | #28
I suspect that those that champion group-play and deride solo-play have never played an MMO that required you to group in order to advance.

As to Flashpoint player fails, the automated Group Finder is actually partly to blame, since it allows members to go to the FP immediately. There's no time to discuss plans before someone is attacking something. This has little to do with solo vs group players and more to do with single player gamers* vs MMO gamers. I've personally given up even suggesting crowd control in FPs because usually everyone in the group is in too much of a hurry to race through it. Again, this is partly from the Group Finder. You get those that have never done a particular FP being grouped with complete strangers who have done it three or more times. The experienced player assumes that everyone knows what to do and races ahead, while the newbie feels pressured to follow along and pretend to know what's what. I don;t even bother to queue up for PuGing FPs on my tank anymore because of this.

If you truly want to blame something, blame the pacing of the game itself. It feels like it's subtly (and not subtly) pushing you along 'Hurry hurry hurry'.

If you really want to make a difference, look to writing an MMO primer for newbies and getting it sticky'd in the forums.


*They might have multi-player experience, but it's usually from FPS games.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.07.2013 , 06:06 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Uldihaa View Post
As to Flashpoint player fails, the automated Group Finder is actually partly to blame, since it allows members to go to the FP immediately. There's no time to discuss plans before someone is attacking something. This has little to do with solo vs group players and more to do with single player gamers* vs MMO gamers. I've personally given up even suggesting crowd control in FPs because usually everyone in the group is in too much of a hurry to race through it. Again, this is partly from the Group Finder. You get those that have never done a particular FP being grouped with complete strangers who have done it three or more times. The experienced player assumes that everyone knows what to do and races ahead, while the newbie feels pressured to follow along and pretend to know what's what. I don;t even bother to queue up for PuGing FPs on my tank anymore because of this.
I have to concede this is a good point I had not considered.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
05.07.2013 , 07:06 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
You know, its funny. Here we are arguing about why people don't listen in this game and here we are not really listening to each other. I say the game was designed to promote solo play and that has become the norm, you say thats not true. Both seem to have valid arguments IMO...and you make some reasonable points.

And yet we circle back to the same thing....you seem to think it is caused by people being people, seemingly with no solution. That's seems rather pessimistic IMO. Also seems rather forgiving of this game in it's early state. To say the servers were not empty.....well that seems just downright ludicrous, like those folks that used to spout that this game had 2 million players when it obviously did not and most certainly did not deserve even half of the players it had IMO.

I just think the way to respect your opinion is just to agree that we do not agree and end the discussion between us on this particular matter at that. I appreciate the discussion.
agree to disagree. maybe.
I don't know if people being people is a pessimistic view with no solution, I was trying to make a point that its not TOR specifically that made people act the way they do. and I concede that its possible that some servers were relatively empty from the start. but far from all. its tiresome to see the game blamed for things it doesn't deserve to be blamed for.

the game in its early state was not nearly as bad as people like to claim and it certainly wasn't actively promoting people to be solo mavericks, it just gave them an option to play that way. rather than punishing solo play, it rewarded group play with social points mechanic, extra experience when grouped (even for solo quests) and the way conversations/cutscenes were integrated. (I thought it was an elegant solution in Beta and I still think its an elegant solution)

that said, yes, automatic groupfinder is certainly something that does encourage antisocial behavior. because, hey why bother to care, if you are just going to be placed into another group anyways? I make a point to talk to people regardless because its nicer that way. unless I'm not in a mood and being a "silent one" and its part of the reason why I'm against cross server group finder, because it will only magnify the problem, since ignore function won't matter as much anymore in that case.

and like I said, group convo's is one of the best times to chat and socialize, because even if you space bar, its still a point in a flashpoint where you all stopped pulling long enough to catch a breath. heck I routinely use those times to make sure everyone is aware of boss strategies (or to ask questions if need be)

I'm actually extremely tempted to blame WoW and their introduction of group finder for mentality of "hurry, hurry, hurry, go, go, go" but I'm not sure its the right thing either. after all, when they added it in, it wasn't to make people rush, people decided to rush on their own.