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DPS Boost for assassins


Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
05.04.2013 , 08:22 AM | #1
Hello,

Let me say this from the start so there is no confusion here , the post is more oriented twards PVE , not PVP , it may influence that area as well , but , at the moment i feel that assassins aren't pulling their weight as DPS in operations.
My spec has been deception since game release , i lvled as deception , and i played , and still do , deception in both pve and pvp , unfortunately i don't play madness , played a little pre 2.0 ( with the new changes to the AC i stopped completely , since they took the uniqueness of the specc away and it feels like the "special" brother of the Sorc version ) , so i am no expert on that spec , and i believe that so many threads already exist on the matter that 1 more would be pointles.
Pre 2.0 deception was pretty decent , i mean i did what was suposed to do in my eyes , since target burst and relatively decent sustained damage. I was always able to be a good option for any grup from my guild , still am , but , with the changes to the DPS specs that were brought in with 2.0 , i feel that it has become really hard , and some of the devs choices left me scratching my head , i mean Nerve Wrecking talent so high up there and so extraordinarily pointles for this spec , not mention gimping Voltaic Slash and Shock in one fell swoop.
Also , these changes were accentuated even more by the crit nerf that all classes suffered , but left some specs unaffected ( Smash comes to mind ) or even in a better place than before. Now don't get me wrong i do not mind Smash at all , its actually quite fun to play against them since , i love seeing a smasher being a bit confused when his hit is completely negated by Force Shroud
Anyway , back to DPS assassins , I read an interview with one of the devs ( can't remeber the guy's name ) in which he sais that in a raid environment assassins are fantastic , since they benefit so much from other classes debuffs , and he started to put a list of all the skills that help us increase our DPS.
The problem i see here , is that other ACs get the benefit of those debuffs as well , and that means that the gap between our DPS and their DPS is not diminished at all , at least that is how i see it
My suggested changes are as follow :
-Nerve Wracking , move this thing back into the darkness tree , used only 1 time and only from stealth is completely pointles in any environment , PVE and PVP , no matter how you look at it
-Charge Mastery - Surging Charge - now this ability has not been changed from release , now with 2.0 it gives 3% accuracy to all specs , but for deception the specific boost is insignificant. My proposal is increase the armor penetration to 20% , this way we are not dependent on Juggernauts , Mercs and Snipers
-Voltaic Slash - give it back the boost to shock , besides the surging charge trigger , if you feel that a 30% increase is too much of that skill , which IMHO is not since it would put it closer to Discharge , make it 20% on 2 stacks instead
-Since Deception ( just like Operative Concealment ) is more crit dependent that the rest of the classes , i would have to say that we would need a Crit increase talent ( maybe 6% ?! ) , and if you want to make sure that no other AC gets the benefit from it , you can tie it to surging charge , that way it only activates only when Surging charge is selected.

Apologies for the wall of text and if someone can bear to read the info above , please port your thoughts , and feedback on the changes i propose. I am really hoping that someone from the dev. team will get some of the details listed either in here or in other posts like this and will turn things around , since at the moment Depetion certainly does not feel like within 5% of pure DPS classes AKA Marauders and Snipers , like they said a veeeerrryyy long time ago.
When you wish upon a star
I will kill you , near or far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIY...eature=related

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.04.2013 , 08:27 AM | #2
The reason is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=615432

The numbers people got and a dev interview which explains why assassins are meant to be like that.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

underpantsgnomes's Avatar


underpantsgnomes
05.04.2013 , 08:47 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
The reason is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=615432

The numbers people got and a dev interview which explains why assassins are meant to be like that.
Aka nerf sins? Someone must be a sniper.
Truth lies within.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.04.2013 , 10:00 AM | #4
That went over your head.

That's my dps comparison thread and a dev interview.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
05.04.2013 , 10:55 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
The reason is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=615432

The numbers people got and a dev interview which explains why assassins are meant to be like that.
In there it showed the Shadow/Assassin Hybrid to yield the least dps, what hybrid are they talking about. During ptr with the gimmie gear I was putting up 100-200 more dps with 0-18-28 (Mad Maul) than full Deception or Madness. Trading Creeping Terror for Induction/Duplicity is so much more damage with how well Maul scales in 2.0.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.04.2013 , 12:10 PM | #6
All parses were from volunteers.

The spec isn't important, what is is that the parse collecting showed all assassins to parse lower on a dummy.

The developer reply to the pts testing was yes, they are meant to parse lower on a dummy.

Read the whole interview fully to understand their logic.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
05.04.2013 , 12:32 PM | #7
Hello,

I already read the interview about 3 times and no matter how many times i read it i am still not satified , as i mentioned in my original post , yes , Assassinate; armor debuff and Sith Executioner are all missing , but then again , on a parser all classes are missing some of the execution talents and the armor debuff and so on an so forth , and with all that , they are still pulling ahead of us, and here is where i fail to see how is the Deception build better now , than it was before 2.0.
Also , in a thread from the test servers , they admitted that sin dps is lower than they expected it to be , so my proposed changes are meant to give them an idea of what some of the players ( in this case me ) want for their class , and maybe a confirmation on something that is already in the pipes but they are still unsure if it would be welcomed , i mean come on , our sorc counterparts are pulling more , and again if you take a look at the numbers all the classes are pulling around 100 more DPS than us , a melee class , and again , all of them are missing some details that we are missing as well , someone said that i need to understand their logic behind it , but honestly i can't . Long story short , all classes have one of the handicaps mentioned in the list , but they are still pulling ahead , and i am hoping that will change.
Please try to post some ideas on how this could be done , if you agree or if not , please help me understand their "Logic"
When you wish upon a star
I will kill you , near or far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIY...eature=related

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
05.04.2013 , 02:09 PM | #8
I'm not holding a banner for anyone, its their reply which I'm linking to.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Kayriel's Avatar


Kayriel
05.04.2013 , 04:03 PM | #9
Maybe i wrote my post wrong , i did not mean to say that you're holding a banner or anything , i just wanted to say that i think that BWs way of thinking is wrong IMHO , and from my POV their logic is flawed , since , i as i said before , if Sin DPS is missing debuffs and execution moves and so on , so are other ACs , but they are still pulling ahead of us.
When you wish upon a star
I will kill you , near or far

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIY...eature=related

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
05.04.2013 , 10:35 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post

Read the whole interview fully to understand their logic.

Ive known about this interview since the day it was released, trust me I understand their logic. I just don't buy it. The claim that Assassin dps suffers more on a dummy than all other classes because the dummy wont enter an execute phase is ridiculous. Just about every other dps class doesn't parse their execute phase or their armor debuffs, so we should all still be relatively close. To say that they will not take low parses from a dummy to reflect the potential of a dps class is lazy. I cant believe you bought their excuses and line of crap to try and shut us up.