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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


CrazyGreggy's Avatar


CrazyGreggy
08.12.2014 , 02:41 PM | #4361
Quote: Originally Posted by KarathAnno View Post
I do understand that and how threat works etc. I only started using saber throw on that pull to test different things after the leap --> reflect or smash failed a couple of times because the dogs jumped the healer instead of me. Again most of the time these tactics work there but on occasion I've had the dogs totally ignore me at the start of the fight if I try to leap to the dog and the guy.
Operative/scoundrel with HoTs running or a Merc/Commando reactive heal thingy will trigger the moment your health bar has space to be filled. A sorc/sage or a lazy Op/Scoun, not so much.

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
08.12.2014 , 02:51 PM | #4362
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyGreggy View Post
Operative/scoundrel with HoTs running or a Merc/Commando reactive heal thingy will trigger the moment your health bar has space to be filled. A sorc/sage or a lazy Op/Scoun, not so much.
And if you saber throw the lone guy standing there, and he shoots you ... boom. If your dps arent smart enough to let you start that pull, and aggro stuff onto them before you get the chance, thats really their problem, even though most people would still blame the tank.

As long as you are the one that starts combat, those dogs are going to leap to you, then smash, wither, flame sweep, etc.

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
08.12.2014 , 03:36 PM | #4363
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
And if you saber throw the lone guy standing there, and he shoots you ... boom. If your dps arent smart enough to let you start that pull, and aggro stuff onto them before you get the chance, thats really their problem, even though most people would still blame the tank.

As long as you are the one that starts combat, those dogs are going to leap to you, then smash, wither, flame sweep, etc.
Pretty much all of this. I've never had an issue with those pulls because I use the dog's job to my advantage. I know exactly where they will be, which is right where I want them. In melee range with me aoeing / tab-target tanking them.

Frenesi's Avatar


Frenesi
08.12.2014 , 08:27 PM | #4364
Had this some time ago with my TK sage.

We have another sage healer, sentinel DPS and guardian tank. SM run on Maelstorm prison. By this time i got relaxed - haven't had any group-wiping situations since hammer station. So i forgot about usual stance check for tank.

Somewhere near the laser-shooting colonel I'm starting to notice something strange. Guardian tank is nice guy, joking in chat, decently holding aggro on groups and even bosses. But he keeps using his force sweep - over and over. What's more strange - it deals ***-load of damage. Nothing i ever saw with other guardian tanks. I'm starting to get suspicious and finally check his stance. For god's sake - dude tanked 1/3 of FP being in focus tree. Without us even noticing it.

Paranoia takes me over and i ask him, is he sure he can tank rest of FP like this? "Nah, it's OK, i know what I'm doing" answer. Healer is also OK with it. Well, i have nothing to complain about too, so we keep going. Amazing thing is - we only wiped once, on the last boss, because healer wasn't hiding from snipes. Our guardian did his job perfectly.

It was my best fake-tanking experience ever )
She don't like losing, to her it's still a game
And though she will mess up your life, You'll want her just the same

Referal with some free crap.

Elusive_Thing's Avatar


Elusive_Thing
08.13.2014 , 12:39 AM | #4365
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
Maybe if you have a couple of aoe specs. Like a smasher and an APt. Ive never bothered doing it myself. If you leap or stealth in and attack the sorc/sage, those three wont move, ever. Even then they are still very grouped up, and stay that way as long as no one gets push happy (noob assassins...).

Most of the time that Ive done Mando as a dps and we have a tank who insists on LoSing, it just results in an initial aggro snafu after which you have the tank with the three tankable npcs in a little bunch and the warrior jumping around pushing people. Which is exactly the same situation you would have by just leaping/stealthing in, it just takes longer and gives the healer something extra to do for a few seconds.
It also prevents the Warrior/Knight from knocking people around. I've seen people LoS it often and it seems to work. When I tank it, I LoS if asked to, because I am not too bothered. Also, on my Sniper it enables me to wallbang the Warrior, which is handy.

Speaking of Mando Raiders, I had a curious SM run there while leveling yet another Juggernaut tank. I was level 25 at the time and had the toon decked up with mostly purple level 25 mods, implants of around the right level and so on. A quick look at the other members at the party implied I wouldn't have to worry about Guard, so off we went.

The first pull after three standard enemies that spawn in the lobby and our Assassin DPS (whom I did not see use Discharge even once, though he definitely got up to three stacks) pulls. No biggie, I leapt and grabbed the two doggies, taunted a standard and Force Screamed another one and we finish the lot. Before I could ask to be allowed to start the fights, the Sniper aggroes one of the elites on the ramp, causing the whole lot to attack. After this there was just enough time for me to type in that the DPS should wait for me to start the fights due to lack of ranged attacks, AoE taunts and all that.

At this point the Sin happily points out he is using a shield, so he will be fine. A quick inspection revealed that he did indeed have a level 12 Green shield equipped. Green level 12 shield with Aim, at around level 25, while in Surging Charge. I cringe and almots miss the fact the Sniper has already pulled another group... This breakneck speed and DPS pulling went on until the boarding party boss when the Sniper excused himself to get a glass of water. I used the opportunity to explain the tactics, but got interrupted around halfway by the Sniper who told me to jump in or he'd attack the bosses.

At this point the healer who had not said a word after the initial hello types something along the lines of "Dear DPS, let the tank do the tanking or neither of you gets a single heal." This kicked of an escalating argument where the two DPS yelled at the healer who yelled at them while I was describing the situation in the guild chat. After maybe five minutes I realised there is a votekick against me and I am being thrown out of the FP.

Well, I wasn't too bothered. I ran three or four Warzone, occasionally using /who to see what the two DPS were up to. After I finished, they were still in the instance. I put one of them on ignore, queued again, got in and ran through Mando with zero issues. After we killed the last boss, they were still in the instance, perhaps an hour after I had been kicked.

BobFredJohn's Avatar


BobFredJohn
08.13.2014 , 12:49 AM | #4366
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
If your dps arent smart enough to let you start that pull, and aggro stuff onto them before you get the chance, thats really their problem, even though most people would still blame the tank.
Quite relevant to a HM athiss I had yesterday with my jugg tank. Merc healer, merc dps and mara dps.

The mara dps chain pulled everything, with me running in after to gather up the aggro, until ofc the merc dps runs in and jet boosts to split the group (I can just about understand assassins doing it, its their only aoe, but a merc??). After this happens in the first 3 pulls I switch to sii cho, deciding it will buff my dps and this mara and merc clearly don't care about the aggro.

The merc dps asks why im tanking in sii-cho
Me: "call for a tank when you want me, in the mean time ill dps"
Mara: "your tank role, you always tank"
Me: "if you want me to tank, stop pulling"
Mara: "you put your guard on me, so im allowed to pull"

Since when did having a guard = permission to pull before the tank? I switch back to soresu and tank all the pulls up to the beast of vodal kresh. At which point I start moving to the right so I don't get thrown over the edge. While im positioning to cope with the boss knockback, the mara pulls, gets knocked back and over the edge, lands in the strong and 2 elites below. He dies then throws a vote kick on me...It fails and the mara rage quits. Sniper replacement and theres no issues for the rest of the mission.

2 lightsabres = leadership!!!
Teach me not what to think, but how to think

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. People are also entitled to ridicule your opinion if it is BS.

Elusive_Thing's Avatar


Elusive_Thing
08.13.2014 , 12:52 AM | #4367
Quote: Originally Posted by BobFredJohn View Post
2 lightsabres = leadership!!!
Double the leadership. Also, he made a huge mistake. A Marauder does need Guard to be allowed to pull!

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
08.13.2014 , 02:40 AM | #4368
Quote: Originally Posted by Elusive_Thing View Post
Only pull I've LoS'd there is the boarding party boss. It makes things a lot easier and usually substantially faster as well.
I find it mostly just annoying. There are four players and four mobs clumped in a very small amount of space, meaning I can't see what's going on. I'm also getting banged up against the wall, disrupting any camera positioning I might try. As a tank, I won't be able to control the battlefield and see if I lose aggro on something, making my groupmates more likely to take hits. As a dps, I have to rely on tab targeting to find the next enemy to kill. At least now I don't need to be able to click the ground to fire off a targeted AoE. As a healer I'm usually clicking portraits to pick targets for my heals anyway, but if someone gets knocked around the corner, or up the ramp, I can no longer throw heals to them. LoS works that way too.

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
08.13.2014 , 02:44 AM | #4369
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
I find it mostly just annoying. There are four players and four mobs clumped in a very small amount of space, meaning I can't see what's going on. I'm also getting banged up against the wall, disrupting any camera positioning I might try. As a tank, I won't be able to control the battlefield and see if I lose aggro on something, making my groupmates more likely to take hits. As a dps, I have to rely on tab targeting to find the next enemy to kill. At least now I don't need to be able to click the ground to fire off a targeted AoE. As a healer I'm usually clicking portraits to pick targets for my heals anyway, but if someone gets knocked around the corner, or up the ramp, I can no longer throw heals to them. LoS works that way too.
That is actually the only time I will always use LOS. Trash pulls are almost never but that encounter a real pain. Mostly because the knock backs and slows screw my guardian over far too much.

I always move my camera angle to top down so I can still see everything going on. As a healer I move to the other side of the room so I have an increased threat threshold.

A lot of pug tanks don't know how to aoe tank so anything that helps them, helps me too.

Elusive_Thing's Avatar


Elusive_Thing
08.14.2014 , 12:34 AM | #4370
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
I find it mostly just annoying. There are four players and four mobs clumped in a very small amount of space, meaning I can't see what's going on. I'm also getting banged up against the wall, disrupting any camera positioning I might try. As a tank, I won't be able to control the battlefield and see if I lose aggro on something, making my groupmates more likely to take hits. As a dps, I have to rely on tab targeting to find the next enemy to kill. At least now I don't need to be able to click the ground to fire off a targeted AoE. As a healer I'm usually clicking portraits to pick targets for my heals anyway, but if someone gets knocked around the corner, or up the ramp, I can no longer throw heals to them. LoS works that way too.
Personally I don't really care one way or the other. I've seen some groups who only use the corner pull to kill the Warrior/Knight (and some times the Consular/Inquisitor too) and then fan out. As a DPS there is no need to tab target there. I mostly tank on my PT, so I can keep aggro pretty well even if the enemies are spread out, so any strategy is fine and I try to conform to whatever the group wants regardless of my role.