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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
07.22.2014 , 03:03 PM | #4081
Lol, I did a few runs of Athiss today and discovered that the Beast can't be kited to the cave anymore. Heh, no more safety net.

I ain't complaining. That's five minutes shaved off the run in my opinion. The problem now is that I keep getting yelled at by people expecting the cave strategy, who haven't been clued in on the change. It's annoying.

Of course, I do wonder why they bothered making this change, 21/2 years after launch. Why bother?
Playing since October 1st, 2011. Squad 238 for life.

Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
07.22.2014 , 03:22 PM | #4082
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterFeign View Post
Fair point, for sure. Good way to show off tank pulls and whatnot, like you said, yeah. What I've found funny though, is recently people are wanting to LoS more often, in mobs where I've never been asked, or expected to LoS before. Makes me wonder if just more and more people are getting worse in FPs.
Well... There is two pulls and the second boss in Mando Raider I like to LoS pull while tanking.. make it so easier to manage with the ranged adds and the dogs or the ranged + melee in the second boss... except that... I can't remeber one place I try to LoS pull something...
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
07.22.2014 , 03:50 PM | #4083
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterFeign View Post
I was so glad for this change... I hate hate hate hate, when people insist on LoSing adds, especially particularly when everyone is more than geared for the fight.

If someone on your team is asking to LoS mobs, they're not that good at their role... I've both tanked and healed and DPSed in situations where perhaps an LoS could have helped, but how are you going to learn to take the heat of a mob, if all you do is try to go the easy route? I can understand for getting FPs done faster (Battle of Ilum), but you still won't learn how to deal with operations if all you do is make it too easy for you...
Line of sight pulling in general isn't bad. It's very useful if a pull has a lot of ranged enemies, and you're not a Juggernaut with saber reflect. But like anything, it's bad if you're overly dependent upon it.

Off the top of my head, for the six HM's,

Meltdown: Doesn't need any LOS pulls.
Corporate Labs: A couple rooms where ranged damage is spread far apart from melee, so LOS can be handy.
Hammer Station: The second room with the elite droids and all those ranged mobs can be simplified with LOS.
Cad: Two rooms with spread out ranged dps, so LOS helps.
Athiss: No need for LOS
Mandalorian Raiders: No need for LOS. (With the exception of the boarding party fight.)
Playing since October 1st, 2011. Squad 238 for life.

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
07.22.2014 , 04:20 PM | #4084
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
Line of sight pulling in general isn't bad. It's very useful if a pull has a lot of ranged enemies, and you're not a Juggernaut with saber reflect. But like anything, it's bad if you're overly dependent upon it.

Off the top of my head, for the six HM's,

Meltdown: Doesn't need any LOS pulls.
Corporate Labs: A couple rooms where ranged damage is spread far apart from melee, so LOS can be handy.
Hammer Station: The second room with the elite droids and all those ranged mobs can be implied with LOS.
Cad: Two rooms with spread out ranged dps, so LOS helps.
Athiss: No need for LOS
Mandalorian Raiders: No need for LOS. (With the exception of the boarding party fight.)
Czerka Labs: All of the humanoid weak mobs in labs have jetpacks. They'll go where you go. And the room with the five weak and one strong can be easily tanked with out using an LOS pull. Just have to move around a little.

Cad: I don't use LOS pulls at all. The pack after the first short cut can easily be taken by surprise. Start out on the dogs and the cluster of strongs. Tab to the weak mobs and use your toolbox to get them onto you. A bit more work granted but I'd rather have the ability to hit the mobs with my attacks rather than have them get stuck on the door.

The rest of the packs are much the same, surprise attack with aoe on the strong mobs while you grab the weak mobs.

I'm not saying using LOS on the Cad pulls isn't a valid strategy, it's entirely up to the person tanking.

Hammer Station: I just have the elites CCed and charge straight into the weak mobs. Tab to the two strong mobs and it's all good. Assuming someone doesn't break a CC. In which case, challenge accepted.

But beyond those few pulls, using LOS becomes a crutch. I use my crazy tactics because I like having the challenge and for the most part it works. Or I just work harder to make it work.

For anyone else, LOSing those few pulls is your choice.

Gardimuer's Avatar


Gardimuer
07.22.2014 , 09:33 PM | #4085
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
Lol, I did a few runs of Athiss today and discovered that the Beast can't be kited to the cave anymore. Heh, no more safety net.

I ain't complaining. That's five minutes shaved off the run in my opinion. The problem now is that I keep getting yelled at by people expecting the cave strategy, who haven't been clued in on the change. It's annoying.

Of course, I do wonder why they bothered making this change, 21/2 years after launch. Why bother?
It takes the devs a while to notice exploits. They seem to only find out when the exploit becomes super popular. For instance the Garj skip in EV had existed since the point when lvl 55 characters reached 30k+ HP, but it only became the norm for EV runs in the few months before it was patched.
In the same vein, it used to be I'd see people doing the cave/pond method maybe 1 out of every 10 times I ran Athiss HM. In the past 3 months it's become the norm.

Gardimuer's Avatar


Gardimuer
07.22.2014 , 09:39 PM | #4086
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
Line of sight pulling in general isn't bad. It's very useful if a pull has a lot of ranged enemies, and you're not a Juggernaut with saber reflect. But like anything, it's bad if you're overly dependent upon it.

Off the top of my head, for the six HM's,

Meltdown: Doesn't need any LOS pulls.
Corporate Labs: A couple rooms where ranged damage is spread far apart from melee, so LOS can be handy.
Hammer Station: The second room with the elite droids and all those ranged mobs can be simplified with LOS.
Cad: Two rooms with spread out ranged dps, so LOS helps.
Athiss: No need for LOS
Mandalorian Raiders: No need for LOS. (With the exception of the boarding party fight.)
I've had some hilarious runs of Cademimu while on my sorc healer. Several times tanks would LOS the droid mobs between the police officer boss and the wookie, but they would only do this with the intention of getting the droids near an edge to be knocked off. The tanks didn't even bother AoEing to get agro on the bunched up mobs. So each time this resulted in myself getting agro on everything just from my puny HOT on the tank and nearly dieing.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
07.23.2014 , 12:14 AM | #4087
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
Mandalorian Raiders: No need for LOS. (With the exception of the boarding party fight.)
Considering this is the only fun fight in Mando Raiders, I'd say - no LoS there either.

There were times when I had to LoS because of terribly geared people and players unaware of their surroundings, but I made every effort to tank the boarding party on the platform where they spawn.

This sometimes meant that three people were hiding and typing stuff like "tank get here", "lol no idea how to play", "nub tank" and such. One even threatened with kick. They fell in line pretty fast when they realised I was ignoring them and tanking the mobs without much effort.

Getting called a noob from someone with 1300 achievement points never gets old.


P.S. Could a kind soul explain the "pull the beast to the cave" in Athiss? I have 100% in that FP but have no idea what you guys are talking about. I just leeroy in and start slapping faces.
I see their R2 droid and I grab it. No, you can't have it back, silly rabbit!

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
07.23.2014 , 01:18 AM | #4088
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
Considering this is the only fun fight in Mando Raiders, I'd say - no LoS there either.

There were times when I had to LoS because of terribly geared people and players unaware of their surroundings, but I made every effort to tank the boarding party on the platform where they spawn.

This sometimes meant that three people were hiding and typing stuff like "tank get here", "lol no idea how to play", "nub tank" and such. One even threatened with kick. They fell in line pretty fast when they realised I was ignoring them and tanking the mobs without much effort.

Getting called a noob from someone with 1300 achievement points never gets old.


P.S. Could a kind soul explain the "pull the beast to the cave" in Athiss? I have 100% in that FP but have no idea what you guys are talking about. I just leeroy in and start slapping faces.
Eh I used to tank it properly, but now I LoS them because I ninja respec before the fight and put my DPS gear on. When they are LoSd, it takes about 30 seconds for the combined DPS of 3 AoE specs to obliterate them (hooray for bunching them up!)

As for pulling to the cave, I never went to the cave but I did go to the pond. The general idea was when you started the fight, you brought the beast to a cave just down the cliff, and a bit to the right after going down the ramp. It required clearing 2 more mob packs, but it meant that the knockbacks would last all of 5 meters before you hit a wall, and the Adds didn't spawn.

The pond didn't go so far as the cave, so was still succeptible to knockbacks, but was far enough away to not have to worry about the adds.
Kwerty, Level 65 Vanguard/Powertech on The Harbinger

3.0 Guides: Vanguard DPS Guide | Powertech DPS Guide
4.0 Guides: Advanced Prototype | Pyrotech

CrazyGreggy's Avatar


CrazyGreggy
07.23.2014 , 03:21 AM | #4089
Never understood how so few people know you can tank the beast in the archway and pick up the adds the moment they pop with Force Sweep, Slow Time or Explosive Surge. There's a line in the stone where the texture changes - park your character's toes on that line, the head swipe bounces you off the arch and more or less back where you started.

Job done.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
07.23.2014 , 04:27 AM | #4090
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
As for pulling to the cave, I never went to the cave but I did go to the pond. The general idea was when you started the fight, you brought the beast to a cave just down the cliff, and a bit to the right after going down the ramp. It required clearing 2 more mob packs, but it meant that the knockbacks would last all of 5 meters before you hit a wall, and the Adds didn't spawn.

The pond didn't go so far as the cave, so was still succeptible to knockbacks, but was far enough away to not have to worry about the adds.
This all seems way too much effort and time-consuming compared to the regular tanking strategy as described by CrazyGreggy in the post above.
I see their R2 droid and I grab it. No, you can't have it back, silly rabbit!