Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


BigBreakfast's Avatar


BigBreakfast
05.08.2014 , 10:15 AM | #2921
Quote: Originally Posted by GraceandDanger View Post
I came back around when 2.6 came out after not playing for about 6 so months. Before that, I don't remember anyone ever using this shuttle strat (I certainly never did as a tank). First run back, the tank is telling everyone to jump on the shuttle. I'm lost but I do it anyway. Even as everyone is standing on the shuttle, healer is still getting hit by the adds through the ship and tank just ignores the adds. Healer dies, I die (trying to keep adds off the healer) and we barely avoid a wipe only because we managed to down the boss fast enough. I've seen strat work a grand total of one time and that was because we had a vanguard tank and everyone else was ranged. All other times, it just causes more problems than it needs to.

I personally hate it, too many tanks use it as a crutch and they get lazy, thinking that standing on the shuttle immediately solves all the add problems, not realizing that you still can still get hit through the shuttle if you don't los them properly. When I tank, I just do it the old fashioned way, hold aggro on the adds and drag them through the fire. Kills them just as fast, dps is free to focus on boss and healer is completely safe without worrying adds running around them. I've had several groups yell at me why I wasn't using the shuttle and I told them straight up that it wasn't necessary. Some groups get so reliant on exploits and shortcuts that they forget how to just play the game.
Like someone else said, if you stand at the very top of the shuttle, between the wings / engines / w/e they are, you won't get hit. But yes, it's really not necessary, and the fight still goes by quickly using standard method. And sometimes those adds do take a while to exterminate after the boss is down. Just once, I saw someone drag them to the edge and toss 'em over the side. And even with the normal method, there are no guarantees that your tank won't still tunnel vision the boss and not pay attention. Honestly though, using both methods with mistakes, that guy probably causes the least wipes.

I did it last night on my severely undergeared guardian tank (felt bad for the healer heh) and it worked nicely, with no adds to kill afterwards (again, if you drag the boss to the shuttle, you'll be right next to the adds, and you can aim the boss's flamethrower at them).

Our melee dps did cause a few kinks throughout the run though. And by kinks i mean wipes. And by wipes i mean he TWICE aggroed the exact same group below the first elevator of death, the first time causing a wipe. There were also a couple of leap-into-big-mobs-before-the-tank-and-melt-instantly moments (i guess he thought "stay here please so i can group them up" meant CHARGE!!). But that's to be expected from someone with <500 achievement points.

He also leaped off the edge at the 2nd elevator to his death. That never gets old

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
05.08.2014 , 10:59 AM | #2922
Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
Its a trend I noticed lately. SWTOR is turning more and more into a game where the brainless can clear much more content than back when it launched. I remember the lv50 HM's from pre 1.2. Even Taral V posed a challenge. You had to cleanse the nade DoT from the last boss since else a dps would lose 75/80% HP. I had at times a run of about 3 hours on Taral. Same with Lost Island. Stuff like that becomes rarer and rarer.

We got now the zergfests called tactical flashpoints. Even the korriban and tython fps poses no threat at all if you got 1 member with a slight knowledge of how to do it.
16 man SM opses are also catering to the brainless. Perfect example was when I pugged a DF HM. Obviously we wiped at Draxus. I explained a bit more tactics to a fellow dps'er who cleared it on 16 man HM (achievements said so). His response was that he just do "Pew pew". Obviously we wiped since on 8 man HM everybody must do their job. On 16 man you can slack more. Even Bruce told us so in his latest yellow post



Now that 16 manned opses become even more accessible I fear that SWTOR will dumb down even further in the future

As a side note:
At least bolster will make sure that the people wearing OC-enhancements will get bolstered up a bit. I always cry a bit inside when I see people rocking those enhancements. Most won't even know that arkanian enhancements perform better

/rant
Since all of the new content is tied to flahspoints and ops, I think it's fine for story mode to be easy enough for the brainless. Story mode is for the story and hard mode is for the challenge. Yes? Would you rather they put in a solo mode? A lot of people, including me, would love it if all FP and ops had a solo mode to truly appreciate the stories, but Bioware seems to be trying to find ways to encourage reluctant groupers to group instead.


Game Development Tutorials
Friends referral for free character transfer and unlocks

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.08.2014 , 11:23 AM | #2923
Re: Shuttle strat (and I think this discussion is OK in here, since it's a topic that leads to a lot of Group Finder Stories in my experience).

So one side doesn't want to deal with damage from adds, the other side doesn't want to spend time AoE'ing those adds.

Wouldn't a hybrid strategy provide both benefits? Bring the boss to the Unstable Fuel (or w/e) point and as the cast goes off, hop off the shuttle and gather everyone on the boss with the adds?

venomlash's Avatar


venomlash
05.08.2014 , 12:38 PM | #2924
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
Re: Shuttle strat (and I think this discussion is OK in here, since it's a topic that leads to a lot of Group Finder Stories in my experience).

So one side doesn't want to deal with damage from adds, the other side doesn't want to spend time AoE'ing those adds.

Wouldn't a hybrid strategy provide both benefits? Bring the boss to the Unstable Fuel (or w/e) point and as the cast goes off, hop off the shuttle and gather everyone on the boss with the adds?
That's what I've done when tanking. As soon as the Unstable Fuel channel starts, I pop Mass Mind Control and Deflection and deal with the pigberts for a few seconds until they get blown up. Sometimes there are a few stragglers outside the 15m taunt range, if the adds are standing in a weird place as part of their stare-angrily-at-the-healer routine, but they can just be burned down without trouble. Vanguard/Powertech tanks should be able to do that even better because of how their mass taunt works.
Quote: Originally Posted by MichelleArcher View Post
Hey there, all! This thread has passed the dreaded 1,000 post limit, and is now in fire. Thanks for the fun, but we feel this discussion as run its course. We will not be restarting this thread.
Jarrant Gartin, Gunnery Commando, Spark of Hope, Begeren Colony

Subach's Avatar


Subach
05.08.2014 , 01:31 PM | #2925
Quote: Originally Posted by SW_display_name View Post
Re: Shuttle strat (and I think this discussion is OK in here, since it's a topic that leads to a lot of Group Finder Stories in my experience).

So one side doesn't want to deal with damage from adds, the other side doesn't want to spend time AoE'ing those adds.

Wouldn't a hybrid strategy provide both benefits? Bring the boss to the Unstable Fuel (or w/e) point and as the cast goes off, hop off the shuttle and gather everyone on the boss with the adds?
People are lazy.

BigBreakfast's Avatar


BigBreakfast
05.08.2014 , 02:29 PM | #2926
Quote: Originally Posted by Subach View Post
People are lazy.
Come now, are you really going to call someone lazy for using the shuttle? I see that being used more often than the old fashioned way. And honestly, it doesn't matter which way is done because it's pretty much the exact same fight, just next to the shuttle instead of out in the open. I still use all the skills in my rotation as tank or dps, including aoe, and a tank can still aim the flamethrower at the adds since they are right next to you.

Lazy is running past those pesky turrets right after the boss and waiting in the final chamber to lose aggro. But I love doing that because i hate those darn turrets . Also could be a great way for people to learn how a healer's aggro works (and why guard won't help the healer). I knew how it worked, but sometimes you need to go through it to really understand it. Like one time on my lowbie sorc healer we ran through to skip, tank in the lead. He didn't hit anything (nobody did), we all simply ran through. As tank took damage, i thought, well, a lil bubble won't hurt. Bad mistake: since none of the mobs were being attacked, they ALL immediately turned toward me. I got knocked back to the rail and died with a quickness.

Edit: geez, i found a whole lthread about this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=649074.
Like i said though, either way doesn't really matter to me. Sometimes i run to the shuttle and the tank jumps to the guy, so I follow. Sometimes I stand around waiting to see what people do and they say "get on top" so I follow. Either way, it always works out just fine.

Darkelefantos's Avatar


Darkelefantos
05.08.2014 , 04:45 PM | #2927
New story, because shuttles are a lame thing to talk about

My 55 Jugg tank, a 54 Op healer, a 51 Sorc DPS and a 50 (51 after Lorrick) Sniper do Lost Island HM. One of the first things the healer does is state their intention of doing the bonus boss, because "all it is is clicking a few things and then dodging the ice", so I don't mind and the others don't say a thing.
Everything goes fine untill Sav-rak, before that even the droid was a breeze. So at Sav-rak, what happens repeatedly is that the DPS get smashed down into the lava. The first time I fall off because I was an inch too far aswell, the second time Sav-rak kills the healer while he's on the pipe. We wiped twice, which is more than I had expected. Alas, one of the DPS learned and so we make it on the 3rd try. And then we reach the bonus boss.

Try one. The boss starts smashing away, the ice is falling down. Remember what the healer said about "dodging"? The DPS didn't, they stood in place and died immediately. Both accomplished this 3 times in the first fight. The boss enrages, I try my best, but he hits me for 17k HP and kills me after a struggle.
2nd attempt, the healer points out that you have to dodge. They do now. Yay. The only trouble is that at like 20% HP, the boss becomes invisible to me, and since Smash was changed I could use exactly one move to do damage to it now. That stupid bug also makes you unable to loot It enrages again, but we manage to kill it in time,

And then we get to Lorrick. It goes really well at first. Then he enters the phase with the "burning rakghouls". I have no idea what happened there, but the DPS on Lorrick got super duper low and the raks stunned me and, well, everything went to sh*t so we wipe again (this was the worst experience I've ever had in that FP ).
So we try again, it goes well at first. By the way, we didn't have the DPS to kill the tanks before the adds spawn. And somehow, the Op healer managed to stand behind me while I was dodging Lorrick's Satchel Charges. The healer dies. Our Sorc gives them a combat revive. Not even a minute later, the Sniper does the same thing and dies aswell. We, no, I finished off the doctor, I was the sole survivor. But in this game, you don't get anything for that, do you?

Prior to this, I had read lots of nightmarish stories about LI HM, but all my runs had gone pretty smooth. Now I know true terror, though.
This place has been an empty wasteland for a long time. No longer.

"In a world without gold, we might've been heroes!"

Subach's Avatar


Subach
05.08.2014 , 06:26 PM | #2928
I've seen plenty of stupid wipes, but I've actually never had a boss enrage on me before. Am I super lucky, or is it because I play DPS as a gunslinger?

grrrly's Avatar


grrrly
05.08.2014 , 09:21 PM | #2929
Quote: Originally Posted by Subach View Post
I've seen plenty of stupid wipes, but I've actually never had a boss enrage on me before. Am I super lucky, or is it because I play DPS as a gunslinger?
That would help, especially if your DPS is sufficient to do the work of 2 people in a hard mode flashpoint. People in decent rated gear from ops can definitely manage this.

I used to see enrage a bit in the level 50 HMs, and the 55s when they first came out. I still sometimes see it in 16 man pug ops if too many ungeared and inexperienced players are in the group - TC HM for example.

I solo some of the level 50 HMs as DPS when I want to work on achievements but can't get a group. A friend and I thought a group was in order to complete Kaon HM so we went in as heals and tank and picked up a couple of pug DPS - one was a new level 50 with 15k health, and the other was a level 55 with quite good gear. I would have thought his DPS would be sufficient to cover the lesser DPS output of the level 50. So I was quite shocked when the Rakghoul Behemoth enraged - the tank had been following mechanics so I'm not sure what the DPS were doing! The level 50 DPS got one-shot but through decent gearing the rest of us managed to stay up till he died. We shouldn't have assumed that the DPS knew what they were doing, and offered an explanation of the fight.

Icarus-Iso's Avatar


Icarus-Iso
05.08.2014 , 09:29 PM | #2930
Changing from my usual operative to my Merc!Healer, get a HM Candi with two Merc!DPS and an Assassin!Tank.

Tank's decently geared and using all the correct moves but aggro is still being lost now and again, though no guard on anyone. I don't think much of it until we clear the bonus boss (again with a few aggro losses which sent the three of us running out of a sneaky pull-immune spot to avoid the red) and we're waiting for the elevator so I have a closer look.

Cue me going "..... did you forget your Tank stance?!"

The poor embarrassed Tank clicks their tank stance on and we finish with no issues and no further aggro loss


On a slightly different note... Tactical FPs when you have two or more healers and one healer decides not to DPS. At all. Just stand there at times and wait for someone to heal. Now that is starting to get on my nerves. Between Heals Over Time and the occasional AOE Heal you don't really need to do anything more heal wise so smack the enemy! Please!
Jack of all Classes | Master of None