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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Kacynski's Avatar


Kacynski
12.06.2013 , 12:18 AM | #1431
Quote: Originally Posted by nyrkverse View Post
Anyway, I have grown a great admiration for tanks and healers. Tanks are always burden with leadership and it seems a bit unfair, what happens if it's a new player who's learning (well, I've seen what happens: some people quit and others step up). And healers, I think they really have it rough, it feels like a role for very stable, very patient people. Personally, I don't think I'll ever roll anything but dps characters: I don't think they're "easy" but I'm pretty sure they're not as difficult.
I think you are touching a few good points with this, but I would like to encourage you and others to try out different roles nevertheless. Yes, there is a burden of leadership on the tank to some degree and yes, healing does require a bit of patience but on the other hand both of these roles can be very rewarding.

I was lucky enough to learn tanking with a group of friends a long time ago in another MMO and have ever since the tanking role enjoyed most. This is obviously the best setting to learn a new role, but it does also work without friends. When I started tanking (I was already lvl50) in SWTOR I collected a basic set of tanking gear with crafting and such and when I set my first step into a flashpoint I announced to the group that this was my first time tanking in this game and asked them to bear with me. It was a very friendly group and a good start. The first couple of FPs I always announced that I am new in tanking and the majority of groups was fine with it and supportive. I made quite a few friends from this as well. The key is to communicate, tell them that you are inexperienced and ask for a little patience upfront. There will be the occasional "gogogogo" person that gives a hissy fit, but in my experience most groups respond well to it.

So all I want to say is: don't be too shy, try tanking and healing if you think it might be interesting. With a little open communication it can be very rewarding from start. And of course the best thing is to start at lower levels and not jump in at max level, when people have higher expectations already.

ChewyYui's Avatar


ChewyYui
12.06.2013 , 03:21 AM | #1432
I am the weird person you meet in GF
The Progenitor - The Alteric Legacy - Kira-chan

Atyaman's Avatar


Atyaman
12.06.2013 , 05:33 AM | #1433
A few days ago (before 2.5 hit us) I had a fun HM Czerka Coremeltdown flashpoint. We had two Knight dpses, one of them was a sentinel, and I havenít checked the otherís AC, but he had an overkill gear and he was from a good raiding guild. I was on my scoundrel sawbones in a fully augmented 69-78 gear.

All is good I thought, until Iíve seen the tank. He was a shadow with 31,5k health, buffed. Iím one of the sane healers who prefer mitigation tanks instead of health based ones, but this low health for a shadow was a bit suspicious, even for me. After I checked his gear it became obvious he had mostly conqueror pvp gear, which is more than enough for HM FPs, but after a closer inspection I realized half of it was sage healer gear, even one of his relic (ďHealing an allyÖ"). I thought, hmm... letís check how many times have he done this FP. Just as expected, he has done the SM version, but not the HM one. Challange accepted

So while Iíve kicked off Parsec, I thought to myself that I will mention none of this to our group mates. Selfish move on my part I know, but hey, the tank wasnít asking for pointers, he never even stated that this was his first time.
With the two competent dps we easily made our way towards the first bosses, and I was getting into the proper mental state, preparing for the train wreck that was bound to happen at Sandclaw.

Oh boy, and a train wreck it was. As I suspected the tank had no idea, that he should take the boss to the generators. One of the knights either ripped agro, or taunted (if he was a guardian) and tried to take the boss to the green lit generator. He didnít make it there before our tank taunted back ofc
I was adamant on one thing only, to keep the two dps and myself alive, I was trying to heal the tank too, but since he wasnít a priority, he passed away when the boss had 30-40% health, he ressed immediately, as all pvp players tend to, and thusly locked out of the fight by the closed door. But to be honest, I wouldnít bothered with combat ressing him, so no loss there
Iím really not sure if we even managed to destroy that single generator that was near to us. I was too busy healing through the constant sandstorms, the rampages and the bossí hits to whoever was tanking it at the time. It only became hairy when I ripped agro. Guess, finishing at 4188 ehps might do that, even if only half of it counts as threat

The Jungle boss was much smoother compared to this, the only hard part of it was to let our tank die. Cause he could taunt the boss away from the mushrooms, but couldnít hold agro long enough to die from the bossí hits. Due to this I had a hard time to manage my strongest (aoe) heals not to hit him, but hit the dps and me. Luckily, he went down at some point and we made it with ease afterwards.

After this, my sentinel friend thought that this is the right time to start tanking. Iíve warned him to use his defensive cooldowns on one of the nastiest pulls in all HMs. Iím referring to the group standing to the left console that you have to click on before the final boss. He didnít, and he went down in less then 1 GCD. Despite the fact that I pre-casted more hots on him. Sorry I cannot heal that, but Iím striving to learn it one day though.

On the final boss our tank died for the third, and final time. Iíve noticed too late that he decided not to move out of the aoe electricity. A burst heal couldíve saved him. Probably.
All in all, it was one of the most fun HMFP for me. And let me state it again (before haters gonna hate ) I wouldíve explained all fights to the tank, if he wouldíve at least asked for it. A pvp player should know best that communication is key.
The Progenitor Gizka
Vaynesh - Scoundrel | Zestia - Commando
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Tailsfortales's Avatar


Tailsfortales
12.06.2013 , 05:48 AM | #1434
Quote: Originally Posted by Kacynski View Post
^This.
I saw this happening several times already and it's kind of annoying. The tossing does not really save time anyway, and when a toss results in a train of mobs, way more time is lost than could ever be gained by an instakill of a single mob.
It's the same when people toss the one droid in hammerstation that waits after the bridge. It will not die from falling, but will be somewhere beneath the floor and keep attacking the group. It will be out of range / not targetable, though and become a major annoyance.
Tossing of mobs is fine, but people please don't do it in Czerka Labs and that one droid in Hammerstation, it's more pain than gain.
Thanks for the info, that's probably what had happened. Still, I felt like a noob when I was unable to heal thru it.
I do sometimes push mobs when we don't have melee, other than the vanguard tank which is semi melee, and I forget that pushing mobs is annoying since I don't play a melee class.
''In e-spess no one can hear you e-scream unless it's done with proper e-hyperbole and e-hysteria."

Loc_n_lol's Avatar


Loc_n_lol
12.06.2013 , 06:06 AM | #1435
Quote: Originally Posted by nyrkverse View Post
Anyway, I have grown a great admiration for tanks and healers. Tanks are always burden with leadership and it seems a bit unfair, what happens if it's a new player who's learning (well, I've seen what happens: some people quit and others step up). And healers, I think they really have it rough, it feels like a role for very stable, very patient people. Personally, I don't think I'll ever roll anything but dps characters: I don't think they're "easy" but I'm pretty sure they're not as difficult.
I don't know about that. My first two characters were healers, and they're still pretty much my "mains" and best-geared characters on either faction.
Even though my first char would probably have warranted me a place in this thread... little on-topic aparte :

I was playing a scoundrel "healer" with 2 points in sawbones, rest in scrapper, up until I eventually hit a wall... in Directive 7. Yes it took 47 levels for anyone to take offense to my less than stellar healing (not that many people died on my watch before then, but the lack of HoTs should probably have ticked them off...), and even then I suspect it was in part because the tank wasn't doing a very good job (I had to exhaust all my energy just to keep the dps alive). Anyway, I got told to "please heal us, ok?" (as if I was doing anything else...), and after a couple wipes on the third boss, one of the dps left and we requeued, with me as dps... thankfully we got a sage with plenty of experience and things went smoothly from there. Lesson learned, I paid a visit to the skill mentor after the flashpoint.

...Anyway, my point was, little noobiness issues aside, healing is a rather simple role for most content. You are the least mechanic-dependant role in the party (no target kill order to know, expected to target friendlies so no interrupting, very few unique mechanics, situational awareness can become an issue if the party is taking huge damage but most of the time it's not a problem). Unlike the tank who is forced into a leadership role, you are a complete follower. There is a sense of responsibility, but essentially it's just about casting the right ability at the right time (preventive heal, small heal, big heal, emergency heal), keeping an eye out on those red bars and your own resources, and staying out of harm's way when playing against poor tanks.

Now tanking... it takes some experience and/or a special kind of player. This is most likely not for everyone. And some of the kind of players who would naturally get attracted to it could explain the tank-with-an-attitude problems we see in this thread.

ZentheSecond's Avatar


ZentheSecond
12.06.2013 , 09:35 AM | #1436
Quote:
Now tanking... it takes some experience and/or a special kind of player. This is most likely not for everyone. And some of the kind of players who would naturally get attracted to it could explain the tank-with-an-attitude problems we see in this thread.
Actually really easily explained by anyone. Tank is the role the least people want to play, you do not see huge Dps numbers or huge healing numbers. Instead you have the pleasure of being the ragdoll the boss stuns/pulls/pushes around the arena. Plus you have to sit and know the mechanics and how to counter them or nullify them moreso then a Dps or healer. So with few people playing the role, those that do get to feel entitled and stuck up. Especially when it comes to a GF que as in most cases the tank just has to hit their que button and a FP instantly pops up, no hour wait. So they get the "Well I can just instant pop a FP so you guys gotta deal with me or sit and wait for an hour" kind of complex.

Think that about sums up the why behind a lot of the arrogant tanks you see. Though a small sect of them are arrogant cause they are full clear of all progression content and sport a "From beyond" and "Dragonslayer" title. Kind of hard to argue with them when it comes to handling a boss fight and its mechanics so I kind of see those tanks as a deserved measure of arrogance despite not being happy with them having it.

sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
12.06.2013 , 11:15 AM | #1437
Quote: Originally Posted by Loc_n_lol View Post
Now tanking... it takes some experience and/or a special kind of player. This is most likely not for everyone. And some of the kind of players who would naturally get attracted to it could explain the tank-with-an-attitude problems we see in this thread.
On the higher levels tanking is very easy, on the lower levels it is tough (especially if dps pull before you or don't listen to you). I don't understand why people think tanking is hard in ops or hm fps, it really isn't. Is it the switches? I mean if pressing "tab" and the taunt button is the hardest thing about being a tank I think they got it pretty easy.
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
MŠkaela - assassin in the shadows

Bilirubin's Avatar


Bilirubin
12.06.2013 , 12:03 PM | #1438
This is the first MMO I played and the tank is the first role I selected. I find it very satisfying, but sometimes very distressing. I am off 16 man HM OPs because my system just cannot render with enough FPS for me to do various mechanics (like, surprisingly, getting the isotope cylinders down on TC HM).

When I took my year off TOR I tried WoW and played dps for the first time (well I had my Gunslinger but never raided with it). With the obsessiveness in WoW over damage meter output I found it even more stressful than tanking. Still managed to down the odd HM raid. Have not yet tried a healer but once I get the Sent and GS to 55 I think levelling a powertech is on the agenda.
Cyannin Level 55 Shadow | Rubinin Level 50 Gunslinger | Mikuri Level 55 Sentinel | Vertatin Level 47 Commando | PURgE
Scartina Level 17 Marauder
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bdatt's Avatar


bdatt
12.06.2013 , 01:10 PM | #1439
Quote: Originally Posted by Atyaman View Post
A few days ago (before 2.5 hit us) ... He was a shadow ...even one of his relic (ďHealing an allyÖ")
Since this was before 2.5, the healing relic was appropriate for a shadow tank, especially with low level content like a flashpoint. The relic could trigger additional self-heals, when the shadow self-healed via combat technique, telekinetic throw w/harnessed shadow, battle readiness, or a medpack.
Jedi Covenant
Master Kristioli | Jedi Shadow
Major Brioli | Vanguard

Sorei's Avatar


Sorei
12.06.2013 , 01:18 PM | #1440
Kinda fits the topic tanks:

Red Reaper on my Sorc Healer:
Jugg tank, Maro DPS and Merc DPS

Surprisingly, we survived the first pull, however, soon I noticed Vicious Throw procs on the tank. That's when I realised he was DPS specced. Well, he was in tank stance so I thought it was no big deal as long as he did his job...which he didn't. While he jumped in first, he never tried to catch all the aggro, so most of the enemies were constantly attacking me, screwing up my force management.
Merc DPS told him to guard me, to which he replied nothing (he hadn't been guarding anyone). Guarding me wouldn't have been the solution anyway, but it would have been better than nothing in this situation. The Merc also tried to tank the enemies that attacked me.
We died two times because I took way too much damage, additionally the others fell to their deaths a couple of times...which happens.
Still, the Juggernaut seemed to know the fp well, so it's funny he got kicked off the bridge.

I don't mind people falling to their deaths, most of us did, but I do mind tanks not even trying to tank. He would have performed a lot better if he had been skilled for tank, but he didn't even try to attack all the enemies and that's what I hate. Also, even DPS Juggs have their aoe taunt.