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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
10.09.2013 , 09:21 PM | #991
Quote: Originally Posted by gearmasher View Post
Then as we are about to enter the temple the tank says

"I just spent the last 3 months in jail."

OK ...

"Don't do pot in Kansas. I didn't have computer access for 3 months".

Not sure if he was trolling or not but that was completely random.
Ha yeah kinda random, but believable. Kansas isn't a "medical marijuana" state or anything of the sort, so 3 months is probably about right for possession of small amounts.
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
10.09.2013 , 09:25 PM | #992
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
I wouldn't worry about it. About to have a senior moment but back when I used to play WoW and gearscore became a big deal with the drooling masses, people were getting all kinds of insults thrown at them and getting kicked out of groups for now having a high enough gear score.

I once had a prot and ret paladin tell me that my ret paladin wasn't geared enough for the 5 man trial of the crusade instances. I had a guild member with me that was running a damage meter. Lets just say I was coming in second behind my guild mate in damage done, despite having worse gear than the other geared paladin dps.

All I did to achieve my higher damage was use seal of command (cleave damage) on a few of the three mob pulls. Just a simple thing like knowing my abilities allowed me to deal more damage than someone in better gear. Amazing how that works.

The point being, Skill > Gear. Gear makes your job easier but skill can make up for a lack of gear.

Oh and for the earlier comment about people using their guild tag as a defense for being stupid. In my little bit of history I just provided I was at the time an officer for the top guild on that server. I never once mentioned that as a defense or means to imply that I was better than anyone in the group. I just played my class intelligently.

Anyone who tries to use their guild tag as an excuse to make their stupid behavior acceptable is a childish scrub.

Agreed entirely, which is why for ME the point where I feel WoW started to go downhill was when they made one of their April Fool's jokes a reality. They incorporated their OWN gear score and enforced it themselves. Sure, they didn't put a "Epeen Meter" over your head and you wouldn't even see chat or toon of anyone below you as they joked they were going to, but it was the same basic thing, it multiplied the "my gear score is higher than yours, that means I'm better than you" tenfold when every player was forced to care about it.
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

Lecaja's Avatar


Lecaja
10.09.2013 , 10:13 PM | #993
A couple of days ago we had a healer que in but refused to heal acting as a pure dps role. He or she was forced out, left in a huff, and we finished the mission with the three of us and a healer companion who did a much better job. I was actually greatful to the guy because I doubt the mission would have popped if he hadn't qued in as we never did get a replacement.

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
10.09.2013 , 11:32 PM | #994
I finally came across THAT guy. The guy that shows up in a flashpoint and expects everyone else to carry him. I joined a Heroic Czerka Labs. Upon entering the flashpoint the tank asks if the flash point drops armor. I proceed to inspect the guy because those sort of questions are a little strange and imply a need for armor due to the absence or lack there of.

I had a look at his gear, I was shocked the guy even queued at all, let alone as a tank. The guy was wearing a mixture of blue gear with one tanking absorb and a whole load of crap stats; accuracy, alacrity, surge and pvp gear with expertise. His head and relic slots were empty and he had medium armor in his chest slot.

I quickly pointed out to one of the dps that we should kick him and seek a replacement but the dps says he wants to see how this goes. After a few trash pulls it's pretty clear we have the dead end of the human chain. Not only does the "tank" not tank anything but he also just waits for everyone else to attack mobs and start the pulls. No gear, no clue, no idea how he can get better gear.

So a few pulls before the first boss I proceed to tell the that he is currently a liability for a story mode lvl 50 flashpoint and dead weight on the group. I'll be honest in saying I don't take kindly to people who expect others to carry them through content, especially when it's a tank who can't even get a basic set of tanking gear organized.

So I suggest that the tank should leave the group and start running dailies to get comms. The tank then replies that he doesn't know where to get tanking gear from.

Again I tell him from running daily missions, crafting, the GTN etc.

The tank replies that he doesn't like my attitude. I ask why he couldn't be responsible for himself and prepare his character so it would be useful to the group as my Treek vastly out gears him and make a better contribution to the group.

It's one thing I never want to be and was amazed I ever met. "THAT guy" who expects everyone else to provide all of the gear upgrades despite offering nothing helpful to a group. I didn't even step foot in a heroic flashpoint at 55 on my commando with out 2 x relics of serendipitous assault , 66 crafted mods, armorings, enhancements, implants and ear peaces.

I've been that way with just about all of my characters. My vanguard was pretty squishy early on and I even had comments from people that I was a butter tank but they also commented on the fact that I knew what I was doing and was still a good tank.

Anyway, we manage to kill the first boss with both dps playing the role of tank / healer. One of the dps was a commando that threw down a few heals now and then when things were getting tight. We kicked the tank before the second boss, I pulled out my Treek and we cleared the trash to the second boss. I mentioned that if we pull the boss we might lose my Treek when a new tank comes in.

We went a head and pulled anyway, the new tank came in and Treek vanished. But we were still victorious and the replacement tank was outstanding.

So yeah.. don't be THAT guy.

shyninja's Avatar


shyninja
10.09.2013 , 11:48 PM | #995
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
I finally came across THAT guy. The guy that shows up in a flashpoint and expects everyone else to carry him. I joined a Heroic Czerka Labs. Upon entering the flashpoint the tank asks if the flash point drops armor. I proceed to inspect the guy because those sort of questions are a little strange and imply a need for armor due to the absence or lack there of.

I had a look at his gear, I was shocked the guy even queued at all, let alone as a tank. The guy was wearing a mixture of blue gear with one tanking absorb and a whole load of crap stats; accuracy, alacrity, surge and pvp gear with expertise. His head and relic slots were empty and he had medium armor in his chest slot.

I quickly pointed out to one of the dps that we should kick him and seek a replacement but the dps says he wants to see how this goes. After a few trash pulls it's pretty clear we have the dead end of the human chain. Not only does the "tank" not tank anything but he also just waits for everyone else to attack mobs and start the pulls. No gear, no clue, no idea how he can get better gear.

So a few pulls before the first boss I proceed to tell the that he is currently a liability for a story mode lvl 50 flashpoint and dead weight on the group. I'll be honest in saying I don't take kindly to people who expect others to carry them through content, especially when it's a tank who can't even get a basic set of tanking gear organized.

So I suggest that the tank should leave the group and start running dailies to get comms. The tank then replies that he doesn't know where to get tanking gear from.

Again I tell him from running daily missions, crafting, the GTN etc.

The tank replies that he doesn't like my attitude. I ask why he couldn't be responsible for himself and prepare his character so it would be useful to the group as my Treek vastly out gears him and make a better contribution to the group.

It's one thing I never want to be and was amazed I ever met. "THAT guy" who expects everyone else to provide all of the gear upgrades despite offering nothing helpful to a group. I didn't even step foot in a heroic flashpoint at 55 on my commando with out 2 x relics of serendipitous assault , 66 crafted mods, armorings, enhancements, implants and ear peaces.

I've been that way with just about all of my characters. My vanguard was pretty squishy early on and I even had comments from people that I was a butter tank but they also commented on the fact that I knew what I was doing and was still a good tank.

Anyway, we manage to kill the first boss with both dps playing the role of tank / healer. One of the dps was a commando that threw down a few heals now and then when things were getting tight. We kicked the tank before the second boss, I pulled out my Treek and we cleared the trash to the second boss. I mentioned that if we pull the boss we might lose my Treek when a new tank comes in.

We went a head and pulled anyway, the new tank came in and Treek vanished. But we were still victorious and the replacement tank was outstanding.

So yeah.. don't be THAT guy.
If it's a Czerka SM Heroic I don't see the big deal. It's ridiculously easy and can be done with 2 people.
That actually the perfect place to get starter equips for 55 HM's if you weren't well geared before that is the best way to get prepped. There isn't even a gear rating suggestion for it like other FP's HM. To me it just sound like you were putting someone down and were being pretty jerk-ish about it.

Also for roles it's not even necessary to have a tank or healer in czerka. There's heal stations on EVERY single boss.

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
10.10.2013 , 12:32 AM | #996
Quote: Originally Posted by shyninja View Post
If it's a Czerka SM Heroic I don't see the big deal. It's ridiculously easy and can be done with 2 people.
That actually the perfect place to get starter equips for 55 HM's if you weren't well geared before that is the best way to get prepped. There isn't even a gear rating suggestion for it like other FP's HM. To me it just sound like you were putting someone down and were being pretty jerk-ish about it.

Also for roles it's not even necessary to have a tank or healer in czerka. There's heal stations on EVERY single boss.
Hard mode 55. Not story mode, hard mode. If it was story mode, I would have soloed it.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
10.10.2013 , 04:58 AM | #997
Quote: Originally Posted by ELRunninW View Post
I have never heard about 'two schools of fighting' I would suggest you are mistaking tanking versus dps. It makes sense to have tank make sure that the strong target is focused on them, while dps kill the weak targets. Perhaps you need to look at this from healers point of view. What would you like to happen if it was you who had to heal the group through an encounter.
Once I visited Taral V, not with the use of a group finder, but via General Chat.

We went to that Agent with his two beasts.

We wiped several times, until we decided to take out that Agent first - and letting those beasts attack us still, because they didn't do that much damage to us. It went fine.

We had no tank, but we had a healer, if I remember correctly (it's half a year or more ago), but in the end, I must admit, we had to dissolve because we couldn't get past that droid before the end boss there.

I have seen similar behaviour with people several times. Some people decide to take out the weaker ones first, meanwhile others decide to take out the strongest enemies first.

These people are no professionals; they seem to be rather casual gamers who just don't cling to the Holy Trinity system that much.

Yesterday, I did the H4 in Sector X with seemingly some if these casuals". Almost hopelessly undergeared, lots of wipes (half of us were level 50).
The wiped went away when the group decided to follow "all onto 1 target" rule. It was relatively easy from then on - and guess which target they use first : The strongest enemies !

In the end, we made it. I have hardly ever seen an more incompetent group at this H4 - but they were seemingly almost all Newbies in that quest or area. I had to explain to them what interrupts are. And that they had to interrupt the dread guard's force attacks. One didn't even figure out how to take the cannon out by throwing the ball.

But in the end, we made it.

Personally, I still believe that the playstyle between "casuals" and "professionals" differ quite a lot. Professionals rather cling to the Holy Trinity, whereas casuals just do what they seem fit. The only rule is : To defeat everything, no matter, how.

Unfortunately, the implementation of the Holy Trinity rather hinders them - and supports MMO veterans at the same time. Simply, because MMO veterans are just used to it, whereas "Casuals" just don't know what ""the Holy Trinity" is. "Tanking" might even an unknown concept to them. All what matters to them is to bring the big bad enemy down - no matter which way.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
10.10.2013 , 05:10 AM | #998
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
The tank then replies that he doesn't know where to get tanking gear from.

Again I tell him from running daily missions, crafting, the GTN etc.
This is the TYPICAL reaction between and professional / MMO veteran and a Casual :

You've left out one step. You assumed something, although you shouldn't have assumed it, at least, when you saw this character's gear.

You replied by "from running daily missions."

You left out the step of telling that person where the venbdors on the fleet are, and what "tank gear" actually is - he didn't even have heavy armor, so it's likely that he didn't even learn the proper meaning of the term "tank gear".

Instead, you assumed that he already knew where the vendors where and what "tank gear" actually is - and THIS is typical professionals' / MMO veterans' thinking ! You applied the way of thinking of MMO veterans to an Casual Gamer !

Now, this will lead to nowhere. You acted like an professional football player who is assuming an 10-year old kid - who wants to become an professional football player himself - knows in which shops to buy appropriate shoeas and "gear" which every professional football player needs. Plus, you assume that this 10-year-old kid already knows where to find an RL trainer.

And all these little, small things / details we forget as soon as we become "professionals" ourselves.

I remember the tale of an IT trainer. He tols an elderly, female secretary to draw with her PC mouse.
What did she do ?
She took the mouse, and drew with it on the PC monitor ! Literally, as I write this !
No-one had told her before how to properly use a mouse.
And the trainer's mistake was, to ASSUME that she had already learned it "somewhere" !

This is the failure of communication : The trained people *assume* so many things that they forget the tiny little details they had to learn in the first place - when they were young.

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
10.10.2013 , 05:21 AM | #999
There is no excuse for being dumb - anyone can google 'tank gear", 'MMO tanking', and find many different guides to gearing - also on these forums. This cannot be explained easily over chat and by no means any player is obligated to do it. I am all for helping new people and I do a lot of that. I still /w when I see usual "Where priority dropbox is" on the fleet, but this is something else.

SWTOR is my first MMO and my first character is a tank and before I even joined any harder content back in 1.7 I made sure I read up about fights and had maxed out on gear I could easily get for comms.
Ingalaarn Conqueror of the Dread Fortress / Ji'kiley Deposer of the Dread Masters
Gate Crasher Joshased / Xartanol The Revanchist
Manticore @ The Red Eclipse

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
10.10.2013 , 05:37 AM | #1000
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
This is the TYPICAL reaction between and professional / MMO veteran and a Casual :

You've left out one step. You assumed something, although you shouldn't have assumed it, at least, when you saw this character's gear.

You replied by "from running daily missions."

You left out the step of telling that person where the venbdors on the fleet are, and what "tank gear" actually is - he didn't even have heavy armor, so it's likely that he didn't even learn the proper meaning of the term "tank gear".

Instead, you assumed that he already knew where the vendors where and what "tank gear" actually is - and THIS is typical professionals' / MMO veterans' thinking ! You applied the way of thinking of MMO veterans to an Casual Gamer !

Now, this will lead to nowhere. You acted like an professional football player who is assuming an 10-year old kid - who wants to become an professional football player himself - knows in which shops to buy appropriate shoeas and "gear" which every professional football player needs. Plus, you assume that this 10-year-old kid already knows where to find an RL trainer.

And all these little, small things / details we forget as soon as we become "professionals" ourselves.

I remember the tale of an IT trainer. He tols an elderly, female secretary to draw with her PC mouse.
What did she do ?
She took the mouse, and drew with it on the PC monitor ! Literally, as I write this !
No-one had told her before how to properly use a mouse.
And the trainer's mistake was, to ASSUME that she had already learned it "somewhere" !

This is the failure of communication : The trained people *assume* so many things that they forget the tiny little details they had to learn in the first place - when they were young.
I can accept that there will be a failure in communication based on assumed knowledge. Indeed there are many things that may come as expected knowledge for playing any of the roles. Debuff removal, threat mechanics, etc.

However, there is a certain degree of research that needs to be done. I didn't learn how to tank by simply walking into flashpoints and expecting everything to just happen. I did a lot of reading, asked people questions, learned through others and personal experience during solo play.

And in the absence of people to ask questions, I simply went looking for answers on the internet. Chances are if you have a question, someone else has already asked it and another person has a possible answer.

Again it's either an assumption or simply a rare trait but I have questions and those questions have questions. I seek out answers until I am satisfied and continue to find more answers and more questions.

I don't expect to be given the answer but rather I am motivated by the need to find an answer. This may seem arrogant but the absence of a drive to find the answers to a question seems lazy.