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Eric Musco please enlight me

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Eric Musco please enlight me
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
05.01.2013 , 06:19 PM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
The story content has exactly the same value it always had. Bioware has simply made a business choice to NOT CHARGE FOR IT in it's new flexible access model. That is their choice to make. Such a choice does not devalue the story content in any way.
Lol, yes it does. The story content is the majority of the game.
James Ohlen: " For 2012 we really want players to feel like they're getting their money's worth. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."

Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
05.01.2013 , 06:21 PM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by SavingPrincess View Post
Wow, that is some serious twisted logic, no offense.

Basic law of economics, the value of something is what people are willing to pay for it. Since people now pay $0 for the story, the value of that story content is now $0. The value USED to be $15. This is an unarguable fact. BioWare/EA said "we are giving this away for free" which means it is now worth $0, like AOL choosing to send out free installation discs. The story content is now by the dictionary definition, worthless. You HAVE to factor that into the equation, you cannot omit it. If you can factor that in, and continue your side of the debate, I will genuinely listen to what you have to say, if you continue to spin it in the ridiculous way of trying to make BioWare/EA sound like a 501c3 non-profit charity that is all "doing us a favor", then your posts will be blank to me.
Actualy thats only one model, ill give you a real life example of another, prince the singer you know him, he gave away his albums for free, no one had to spend a money, he gained money from getting more people to listen to his music and they ended up going to his live show, he got so many extra people due to this that a 20 night event turned into a 30 night event.

Swtor basically does the same thing, get the product out there and then reap the rewards from the cartel market, they have stated that the coins we get dont only allow us to get any extra stuff we want that drops on the cm like the cathar but we are also getting a discount ontop of it.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

SavingPrincess's Avatar


SavingPrincess
05.01.2013 , 06:22 PM | #503
Let me phrase it this way.

It is literally (as in literally) impossible, let me say again, IMPOSSIBLE, to pay for story content.

So, how does the $15 sub pay for as much as it did when you HAD to pay for story content?

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.01.2013 , 06:23 PM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by SavingPrincess View Post
Basic law of economics, the value of something is what people are willing to pay for it. Since people now pay $0 for the story, the value of that story content is now $0. The value USED to be $15. This is an unarguable fact.
You are confusing what a MMO company choose to charge with actual value.

They changed their business model. Part of that change is to decide what aspects they will charge for and what aspects they will not charge for under a new dual access business model. No more, no less.

as stated above by another poster.. by any objective reference standard... subscribers have more access to more content then they did back in November when the new business model went live. This is in fact true of all MMOs actually... over time.. the subscription price remains the same.. but there is more and more content inside the MMO (from patches and expansions, free or one time buy) then prior months of access. So on a strictly value proposition basis... flat fee subscription customers of MMOs get more for less over time (regardless of the specific business model applied).
--------------------- Don't bother. I'm Not Here. ---------------------

Jimvinny's Avatar


Jimvinny
05.01.2013 , 06:25 PM | #505
Quote: Originally Posted by SavingPrincess View Post
Wow, that is some serious twisted logic, no offense.

Basic law of economics, the value of something is what people are willing to pay for it. Since people now pay $0 for the story, the value of that story content is now $0. The value USED to be $15. This is an unarguable fact. BioWare/EA said "we are giving this away for free" which means it is now worth $0, like AOL choosing to send out free installation discs. The story content is now by the dictionary definition, worthless. You HAVE to factor that into the equation, you cannot omit it. If you can factor that in, and continue your side of the debate, I will genuinely listen to what you have to say, if you continue to spin it in the ridiculous way of trying to make BioWare/EA sound like a 501c3 non-profit charity that is all "doing us a favor", then your posts will be blank to me.
I don't think anyone is claiming Bioware is a non-profit charity or anything like that. It's simply that some of us realize that Bioware is a business, and have to realize a sufficient profit to keep the game running. If you have a problem with paying, then stop.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.01.2013 , 06:26 PM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by SavingPrincess View Post
Let me phrase it this way.

It is literally (as in literally) impossible, let me say again, IMPOSSIBLE, to pay for story content.

So, how does the $15 sub pay for as much as it did when you HAD to pay for story content?
You can phrase it any way you want. As a subscriber.. you have more content for the same subscription price then you had 3 months ago, 6 months ago, 12 months ago, or at launch. That's one of the unique qualities of MMOs... same low price.. more content over time. The fact that Bioware chooses to allow access to some of that content to premium/free players is irrelevant. But hey.. if you disagree.. the smart move would be to unsub and play for free, right?
--------------------- Don't bother. I'm Not Here. ---------------------

SavingPrincess's Avatar


SavingPrincess
05.01.2013 , 06:32 PM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
You are confusing what a MMO company choose to charge with actual value.

They changed their business model. Part of that change is to decide what aspects they will charge for and what aspects they will not charge for under a new dual access business model. No more, no less.

as stated above by another poster.. by any objective reference standard... subscribers have more access to more content then they did back in November when the new business model went live. This is in fact true of all MMOs actually... over time.. the subscription price remains the same.. but there is more and more content inside the MMO (from patches and expansions, free or one time buy) then prior months of access. So on a strictly value proposition basis... flat fee subscription customers of MMOs get more for less over time (regardless of the specific business model applied).
No, you are misconstruing the definition of value in an economics argument. The economical definition of "value" is:

"monetary or material worth, as in commerce or trade"

If you charge $0 for something, then you are valuing the item at $0. What it "means to you" and the "blood sweat and tears" that went into creating it, DOES NOT MATTER. It's value is $0. Period. You cannot argue this.

That being said, I say again, you cannot pay for story content. So what you are PAYING for, has changed, whether you like it or not. You cannot pay for story content... you CANNOT pay for story content. So what are you paying for? The subscriber benefits outside of story content (which we had before) plus 500 cartel coins. So you can say "well, the story content before was the $5 out of the $15 subscription fee" and you are valuing the rest of the benefits (credit caps, character slots, etc.) at $10/mo. That's fine, but BioWare is not offering the subscription model at $10/mo. They only offer $15... so now, the story content has been replaced by $5 worth of Cartel Coins as a subscriber benefit (i.e. this SHOULD be your argument, but you keep missing it).

I would actually prefer to take the "complimentary" cartel coins off the table and have them offer a $10 subscription, because yes, when you look at value (as in the actual economical definition) they HAVE "taken something away" since you can no longer pay for story content, and replaced it with $5 worth of their in-game currency.

EDIT: Also, the story content that you CAN pay for (i.e. RotHC) subscribers have to pay additional for.

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
05.01.2013 , 06:34 PM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by SavingPrincess View Post
No, you are misconstruing the definition of value in an economics argument. The economical definition of "value" is:

"monetary or material worth, as in commerce or trade"

If you charge $0 for something, then you are valuing the item at $0. What it "means to you" and the "blood sweat and tears" that went into creating it, DOES NOT MATTER. It's value is $0. Period. You cannot argue this.

That being said, I say again, you cannot pay for story content. So what you are PAYING for, has changed, whether you like it or not. You cannot pay for story content... you CANNOT pay for story content. So what are you paying for? The subscriber benefits outside of story content (which we had before) plus 500 cartel coins. So you can say "well, the story content before was the $5 out of the $15 subscription fee" and you are valuing the rest of the benefits (credit caps, character slots, etc.) at $10/mo. That's fine, but BioWare is not offering the subscription model at $10/mo. They only offer $15... so now, the story content has been replaced by $5 worth of Cartel Coins as a subscriber benefit (i.e. this SHOULD be your argument, but you keep missing it).

I would actually prefer to take the "complimentary" cartel coins off the table and have them offer a $10 subscription, because yes, when you look at value (as in the actual economical definition) they HAVE "taken something away" since you can no longer pay for story content, and replaced it with $5 worth of their in-game currency.
I agree
James Ohlen: " For 2012 we really want players to feel like they're getting their money's worth. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.01.2013 , 06:52 PM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by SavingPrincess View Post
If you charge $0 for something, then you are valuing the item at $0. What it "means to you" and the "blood sweat and tears" that went into creating it, DOES NOT MATTER. It's value is $0. Period. You cannot argue this.
If you actually charge $0 for a product yes. However, you are distorting for you own convenience. you are fractioning the product and trying to use micro-economics to argue macro-economics.

Bioware has done the same thing many MMO companies do.. including pure subscription MMOs... the are giving away a portion of their old content at no charge. However, the majority of this games content today (not at launch, but today) remains accessible to subscrbers only, or to premium players who "pay as you go"

Again... more content today.. for the same subscription price then before F2P.

In the end.. "value" rests only in the eyes of the consumer. A company endeavors to create value sufficient to get the consumer to consume. If you don't see the value... find something that meets your personal value requirements IMO.
--------------------- Don't bother. I'm Not Here. ---------------------

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
05.01.2013 , 06:53 PM | #510
Nothing is free:

Quote:
There is a proposal under consideration in the Tennessee General Assembly to apply the state's sales tax to "free" meals provided to hotel customers. The argument is that complimentary breakfasts are currently being provided tax-free.

There are a lot of complicated concepts in taxation and economics, but "free" is not one of them. In short, nothing is free. You may be familiar with the adage "there is no such thing as a free lunch," which stems from the observation that while some things may seem free there is always a cost, even if that cost is distributed among people who do not receive the benefits.

In this specific case we might coin our own phrase: "there is no such thing as a complimentary breakfast." The cost of providing a "complimentary" breakfast is obviously included in the cost of renting a hotel room. While that cost is spread around to all guests, some of which may not actually eat the breakfast, it is not provided for free. A correct statement would be to say that for someone who has already made the decision to rent a hotel room, there is no marginal (or additional) cost to eating that breakfast of cold cereal, yogurt, and donuts. But that does not make it free.

Since the breakfasts are part of the cost of hotel rooms, and rooms are taxed by state and local sales taxes, it follows that the breakfasts are also taxed. I would also note that not only are hotel rooms taxed under state (7%) and local (2.41% average) sales taxes in Tennessee, but they are also taxed by many local jurisdictions that levy hotel occupancy taxes, with total rates getting as high as 17.25%. Adding a tax for the meals would double-tax those meals.

Reagan Farr, commissioner of the Tennessee Department of Revenue, says that "Tennessee is an anomaly among the 50 states" because it does not tax these meals. That may be, but (to borrow another favorite parenting phrase) if every revenue department commissioner in the country jumped off a bridge, would you do it to?

Remember kids, in some cases, being an anomaly is a good thing.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/there-...tary-breakfast
James Ohlen: " For 2012 we really want players to feel like they're getting their money's worth. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."