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The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PVE DPS Compendium

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PVE DPS Compendium

offbeatpaladin's Avatar


offbeatpaladin
06.05.2013 , 09:18 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DrKlep View Post
I've been doing some tinkering with my Scrapper's rotation, and what I've found is that if your alacrity is high enough (mine is around 370), you can actually fit both Sabotage Charge and XS Freighter Flyby in on (or nearly on) cooldown. I've preferred Sabo Charge to the Flyby for a while both because it requires less down time and because it doesn't require the target to be stationary, but being able to use both is clearly better than just using one or the other.
You don't need any alacrity to maintain flyby on cooldown. You can actually cast it when you're close to dipping into bad regen due to the lengthy castt, you'll basically be right back where you started when the cast is completed.

Alacrity is really a ruse. It's a stat they changed to get us excited and talking about it, but you really need...... zero. If you can sabo on cd with massive alacrity, that's cool, but I'd be interested to see how badly your power as suffered as a result. Not saying sabo is bad or doesn't have it's purpose, just saying it's energy cost is prohibitive in using it on cooldown when sustaining your dps with other abilities. It's clunky and doesn't fit well into the rotation at all.
HOW YOU LIKE YO EGGS?!?

FRIED OR FERTILIZED?

DrKlep's Avatar


DrKlep
06.05.2013 , 09:22 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
could you elaborate a bit more on that?
how much is that in percent? about 4%, so do you have a total of 12% with rolling punches and black market mods?
It's about 7% before any procs (I put points into the alacrity boost in the Dirty Fighting tree). I actually am cheating on accuracy a bit, and I'm not really suffering for it that I can tell. My current tech accuracy is between 106% and 107% (I can't remember exactly). My surge is sitting at 230 and my crit rating is 0. I'm still at a point where power is just worth more.

Quote:
i'll have to login to check for sure, but i'm fairly certain sabotage charge is kinetic damage, while flyby is all elemental, so the latter does more damage.
Yeah, that was wrong. I've edited my post.

Quote:
i've actually taken sabotage charge out of my rotation since 2.0 because i had a lot of trouble managing the 25 energy cost. i think what made flyby more manageable was the 3s cast-time. perhaps i could just make sure to follow sabo charge with flurry of bolts. how do you manage the energy cost? or do you feel it's not much of a problem?
I'm not going to lie, it's hard to do and I'm pretty sure my high alacrity is the only thing making it possible. I only started trying it yesterday and I don't have it down perfectly yet, but I'm close enough that I know I can do it in a sustainable way. I am usually following sabo charge with a flurry of bolts, though sometimes I'm able to do something else. Here's a link to my parse on the dummy: http://www.torparse.com/a/269198/1/0/Overview

DrKlep's Avatar


DrKlep
06.05.2013 , 09:30 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by offbeatpaladin View Post
If you can sabo on cd with massive alacrity, that's cool, but I'd be interested to see how badly your power as suffered as a result.
Not at all. Power and alacrity don't share the same side of the stat budget. It's accuracy and surge that trade off with alacrity, while power trades off with crit. I always stick to the high-power versions of enhancements as well.

offbeatpaladin's Avatar


offbeatpaladin
06.05.2013 , 09:33 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DrKlep View Post
Not at all. Power and alacrity don't share the same side of the stat budget. It's accuracy and surge that trade off with alacrity, while power trades off with crit. I always stick to the high-power versions of enhancements as well.
Ahh, okay. Nice. Good parse, btw. Mine are similar with zero alacrity and no sabos. I'm.. at work or I'd show you, but now you've motivated me to try this out and see if I can sustain it.

Appreciate that.
HOW YOU LIKE YO EGGS?!?

FRIED OR FERTILIZED?

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
06.16.2013 , 09:46 AM | #25
just wanted to update on the things i'm working on:

stats!
i've had a look at the new kell dragon gear, and it seems exactly 5 enhancements/implants/earpiece worth of accuracy is exactly enough accuracy we need (86x5 = 430, 432 is need to get +6%)

i'll have a look at alacrity and surge as well and post some of the stuff i've found.

also crit vs surge

i think i'll just post what i know. all the facts about stats that i can find and let people make decisions about how to gear, etc.



opener. still working on this and trying to make it a lot more consolidated.



dirty fighting.
i haven't had much chance to try it out in ops or anything. my previous guild only allowed me to bring my commando since it was all 'mains only' and weird crap like that, but i've recently switched guilds. now, of course, everyone just wants to do nightmare, and my commando is the only one geared enough.

but we'll see how it goes. i can say for certain that dailies and all that are a lot easier (except when you take into account i don't have as much familiarity with it as scrapper)


i'm currently trying this
i've found that Nice Try is bugged if you reapply shrap bomb or vital shot right as it ends. there's a small delay i guess, and the new DoT is still replaced by the weaker one, so i'm not using it for now.
i saw confirmation about that here in our mirro's forums

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
07.02.2013 , 11:20 AM | #26
added info about relics


still working on dirty fighting. everyone wants to do nightmare lately, and my scoundrel isn't geared for it yet, so he isn't getting much experience even with scrapper.




also i was working on my opening rotation and thought a good rule of thumb could be:
Blaster Whip > Atk1 > Atk2 > Atk3 > Repeat
and every other Atk1 is replaced by Back Blast, and Shoot First can be filled into the gaps where available.

this caused a problem with Blaster Whip > Shoot First as that builds 2 stacks of Upper Hand, so the only way UH isn't wasted is if all of them are used up beforehand.

i will test this out and see how it goes, but the only way i can see it being very feasible is if Sucker Punch uses up all of those stacks before the block repeats

i could suggest Atk 2 or Atk 3 instead, but i worry that might be difficult as well

BW > Sucker Punch > SF could still run into the same problem anyway. SF > BW is exactly the same problem as well, so maybe throwing as many SPs before BW > SF will be the way to go?


anyone have any thoughts? or maybe i'm completely overthinking the problem lol
oaceen assault specialist / oac scrapper / oacao kinetic combatant / oacianado tactician
[Guide] The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PvE DPS Compendium

Anyakaschala's Avatar


Anyakaschala
07.05.2013 , 04:41 PM | #27
Didn't really see it but if I missed it, I apologize.

What should the stat priority be for scrapper and/or dirty fighting. Mainly I see this thread focused on scrapper, which I'm starting to enjoy, but I'm still at a little bit of a loss on the stats.

Is Accuracy as big of an issue as it is with other classes? Should you get to 110% for ops boss fights?

power vs crit? Is the 30% crit then the rest to power still the way to go as it has been?
Alacrity/surge? Which way to go?

And in terms of gear, I've also heard that some people use a 2piece pvp for the extra flyby tick? Thoughts on that vs the 4pc bonus on tier gear

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
07.06.2013 , 10:25 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Anyakaschala View Post
Didn't really see it but if I missed it, I apologize.

What should the stat priority be for scrapper and/or dirty fighting. Mainly I see this thread focused on scrapper, which I'm starting to enjoy, but I'm still at a little bit of a loss on the stats.

Is Accuracy as big of an issue as it is with other classes? Should you get to 110% for ops boss fights?

power vs crit? Is the 30% crit then the rest to power still the way to go as it has been?
Alacrity/surge? Which way to go?

And in terms of gear, I've also heard that some people use a 2piece pvp for the extra flyby tick? Thoughts on that vs the 4pc bonus on tier gear
i haven't gotten around to the stat part yet. i apologize, but i've been away for a while visiting family for the past couple of weeks, and now with the 4th of july weekend, i'm even busier.

as to your question, 100/110% accuracy is absolutely the way to go, and this is now true for all dps classes since ops bosses have 10% defense as well as 10% resistance now.
as far as crit and power are concerned, i don't know. from what i can tell though, the difference between having 0 crit and 800 power versus 0 power and 800 crit seems to be a fraction of a fraction of a percent, so it's mostly up to personal preference.

i think for PVE, a scrapper would probably want to focus more on power so their contributions during ops fights are less based on RNG
for dirty fighting, i think a bit more crit should be added in because bleed crits restore energy.

again, how much of each should be based on personal preference. from what i've been reading on the forums, most people are going for absolute 0 crit or ~200


as far as alacrity / surge is concerned, i honestly don't know either. i have a little bit of alacrity just because i like being at 10% on my scrapper, but i have some maths i need to do about the regen stuff for scoundrels that i don't recall off the top of my head. basically, at least on the tooltip, certain percentages of alacrity give a bonus to regen
for example, 1%, 2%, and 3% could all say 6.1 energy, but 4% might say 6.2
i don't know if it's just rounding off on the tooltip or actually rounding off in the mechanic of energy regen itself, but i'll go more in-depth with that when i finally get to putting this into the guide.



as far as set bonuses go, i would say 2/2 for backblast / blaster whip crit is probably the best way to go
the extra flyby tick is very nice. honestly, anything is better than the 4-set bonus. it's absolute garbage. my scrapper still has the old +15% back blast crit set bonus because he's really unlucky on rolling for gear with set bonuses, and i don't even notice a difference not having the 4-set.

+5 energy isn't even that great on its own, but when you factor in that going into lower regen happens at percentages rather than base numbers (ie: 60% of max instead of 60 energy), you actually go into lower regen at 62 (not 60), so it's actually only worth 3 extra energy for the top tier regen.



and this guide is more tailored to scrapper because that's the spec i play and most enjoy. i have little experience with dirty fighting, and none in a raid setting, so i'm looking for people to contribute and hopefully get some experience myself with it. lately all my guild has wanted to do is nightmare tfb, and my commando is more geared than my scoundrel, so he doesn't get much of a chance to raid at the moment.

hopefully i've answered adequately enough for you for now. sorry it's not available now, but basically all the information in this post, fleshed out and a bit more easy to read, will be added to the guide soon.
oaceen assault specialist / oac scrapper / oacao kinetic combatant / oacianado tactician
[Guide] The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PvE DPS Compendium

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
07.14.2013 , 04:18 AM | #29
i have finishing my synthesis of the opener explanation as well as expanded the single-target rotation for Scrapper

i now consider the scrapper portion of the guide to be complete (aside from slight formatting changes) unless parts of it come across and too confusing and need further revision

thanks everyone for your replies and questions so far and your patience with me as i finish the guide



currently working on:
  • dirty fighting (doing lots of dailies lately to try this out, but no ops yet unfortunately)
  • stats and gearing
  • disappearing act + out of combat rezzes
  • explanation of how scoundrel should negotiate specific fight mechanics
oaceen assault specialist / oac scrapper / oacao kinetic combatant / oacianado tactician
[Guide] The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PvE DPS Compendium

obliminator's Avatar


obliminator
07.14.2013 , 12:44 PM | #30
This is amazing.
I think you just convinced me to actually play my scoundrel (sitting at level 10 for way too long).
That being said, I don't really understand the point of having alacrity - if you have 4-move blocks centered around a 6-second CD, alacrity doesn't let you attack any faster anyway. Is it only for energy regen?
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