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The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PVE DPS Compendium

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PVE DPS Compendium

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
06.03.2013 , 03:28 AM | #11
added rationale for the talent tree and did a few fixes here and there


i've removed the opener portion until i can revise it and make it a lot more manageable. i will most likely add a short note about the opener and then much later flesh out the complex opener mechanics.


did a lot of formatting here and there. there's a few formatting errors, but i'm tired and don't feel like dealing them just now. sometimes bbcode hates me >:(

Master-Jerico's Avatar


Master-Jerico
06.03.2013 , 03:48 AM | #12
Exactly what I was looking for.

Subbing!
Caelis
<Luminous>

JSunrider's Avatar


JSunrider
06.03.2013 , 10:25 AM | #13
Ok, this is my super-fresh eyes, super-nubby take on the class so far. Questions peppered throughout.

The priority system is actually pretty simple. In a perfect world, we'd just use FR/SF over and over. Sadly, the EAgods have decreed that we can only shoot first...first. And then we do other stuff.

Priorities:

1. FR/SF. BOOM. You will only get to use this on opener and on DA every 90s. Aside concern: if you use DA to accelerate your dps this way, you won't have a stealth res available. Obviously not an issue if your raid is pro and no one dies, but...probably worth a mention. I consider stealth res to be one of the great perks of a stealth class; notable that you give it up (potentially).

2. FR/BB. BOOM! Every 12s. Never miss this.

3. VS. Dots are good. Every 18s. Question: is this ever an energy issue? The resource management is the part I don't really get yet.

4. SP. Of our no-CD moves, we would like to use this every time, right? I think I'd get suckered into flying fisting my way right past a BB if the procs were hitting repeatedly. It's hard to stop!

5. BW. Just to get to 2UH so we can SP.

My big Qs:

Before we factor in Flyby, isn't this all you really need? Stuff like Sabo Charge and QS just seem to junk up the energy for no/not much dps.

Why not pre-cast Flyby as per the raiding standard? Can you not get into position in time if you do that?

bryceman's Avatar


bryceman
06.03.2013 , 10:44 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by JSunrider View Post
Ok, this is my super-fresh eyes, super-nubby take on the class so far. Questions peppered throughout.

The priority system is actually pretty simple. In a perfect world, we'd just use FR/SF over and over. Sadly, the EAgods have decreed that we can only shoot first...first. And then we do other stuff.

Priorities:

1. FR/SF. BOOM. You will only get to use this on opener and on DA every 90s. Aside concern: if you use DA to accelerate your dps this way, you won't have a stealth res available. Obviously not an issue if your raid is pro and no one dies, but...probably worth a mention. I consider stealth res to be one of the great perks of a stealth class; notable that you give it up (potentially).

2. FR/BB. BOOM! Every 12s. Never miss this.

3. VS. Dots are good. Every 18s. Question: is this ever an energy issue? The resource management is the part I don't really get yet.

4. SP. Of our no-CD moves, we would like to use this every time, right? I think I'd get suckered into flying fisting my way right past a BB if the procs were hitting repeatedly. It's hard to stop!

5. BW. Just to get to 2UH so we can SP.

My big Qs:

Before we factor in Flyby, isn't this all you really need? Stuff like Sabo Charge and QS just seem to junk up the energy for no/not much dps.

Why not pre-cast Flyby as per the raiding standard? Can you not get into position in time if you do that?
I use Flyby after hitting pugnacity and after my flying fists upper hand procs. Sab charge I throw in right before cool head comes off cooldown so I get my energy back quickly. Essentially you are correct: the basic idea is to sucker punch away keeping at least one stack of upper hand up at all times. Keep vital shot up at all times and spec into the increase chance for it to tick twice. Also yes keep the buff from backblast up at all times at it increases alacrity by 6% which is extremely important.

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
06.03.2013 , 12:52 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by JSunrider View Post
Ok, this is my super-fresh eyes, super-nubby take on the class so far. Questions peppered throughout.

The priority system is actually pretty simple. In a perfect world, we'd just use FR/SF over and over. Sadly, the EAgods have decreed that we can only shoot first...first. And then we do other stuff.
thanks for replying!
i'm glad i made it easy to understand for you

Quote:
Priorities:

1. FR/SF. BOOM. You will only get to use this on opener and on DA every 90s. Aside concern: if you use DA to accelerate your dps this way, you won't have a stealth res available. Obviously not an issue if your raid is pro and no one dies, but...probably worth a mention. I consider stealth res to be one of the great perks of a stealth class; notable that you give it up (potentially).
i suppose i should touch upon this point in the guide somewhere.


my feelings are if you need a stealth rezz within the first 1m30s, you're in a lot of trouble anyway.
at the very least, i throw it in the opener.

after that, i merely let people know 'i'll have my rezz up in x seconds' or something if they do need a stealth rezz.

i also hate to use it for that purpose because so often i get put back into combat, don't get the rezz, and lose my extra shoot first. very frustrating.

Quote:
2. FR/BB. BOOM! Every 12s. Never miss this.

3. VS. Dots are good. Every 18s. Question: is this ever an energy issue? The resource management is the part I don't really get yet.
here's a quick breakdown for how energy was before 2.0 and how it's different.

Back Blast cost 5 energy, so with Flechette Round, this was a 20 energy attack. 15 energy is a lot more manageable, and basically saves an extra 25 energy per minute.

Vital Shot also cost 20 energy. one could have spec'd into reducing the cost to 16, but this would mean giving up the 18s duration or the increase to cunning. most people opted to skip this and deal with the high cost. the end result was that VS wasn't used as much as it probably should have been.

Sucker Punch only cost 10 energy. So this one went up to 15, BUT it now has a 70% chance every time you use it to only cost 5 energy (basically a net gain of energy since you regen more than that during the GCD)

sabotage charge also went up, but it was never a vital part of the rotation anyway.

another point, pugnacity was a buff that required one stack of upper hand that had to reset every 30-45s. while active, it increased energy regen by 1 per second. this is now a passive ability available to all scoundrels without the cost of upper hands. those extra upper hands see good use as fodder for more sucker punches

the alacrity changes are actually really good for energy. 8% alacrity that's basically up all the time is amazing.


Quote:
4. SP. Of our no-CD moves, we would like to use this every time, right? I think I'd get suckered into flying fisting my way right past a BB if the procs were hitting repeatedly. It's hard to stop!

5. BW. Just to get to 2UH so we can SP.
don't get too discouraged if you waste your upper hand stacks or miss part of the rotation.
honestly 2% is not a make-it-or-break-it buff, and missing out on a few attacks here and there is even less miniscule of a difference. and like i said, the buffs from Back Blast last 15s, so you get a 3s window when it's off cd before the buffs wear off.

Quote:
My big Qs:

Before we factor in Flyby, isn't this all you really need? Stuff like Sabo Charge and QS just seem to junk up the energy for no/not much dps.
i rarely every use quick shot, but it's more ideal in the rotation to throw it out every now and then instead of flurry of bolts. if things are getting too hectic, it's the first thing i start ignoring from the rotation.

sabo charge i use for fights like zorn & toth when i have to run away from the leap or during ec kephess so i can attack the bomber as soon as he spawns. i can attack from range and throw that out along with charged bolts (i kept meaning to add something about charged bolts too, but kept forgetting to get around to it)

Quote:
Why not pre-cast Flyby as per the raiding standard? Can you not get into position in time if you do that?
gunslingers can do this as they don't need to be in stealth.

shoot first is much more important than saving yourself 3s of cast time (plus a lot of boss fights require saving flyby for add phases anyway)

i believe the only way you can actually do this is if you cast flyby, stealth immediately after it finishes, and hope no one starts the fight before then. otherwise you're wasting disappearing act to get out a shoot first or starting without all of your tools available to you right away.
even then, you're still going to have to walk in to position yourself for shoot first as you can't be very close and out of stealth to pre-cast flyby

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
06.03.2013 , 02:57 PM | #16
satchel charge was a viable ability for scrappers in 1.7. it uses a ton of energy, but i try to use it off cd.

quantez's Avatar


quantez
06.04.2013 , 01:24 AM | #17
Nice guide from someone who is actively raiding. I play scoundrel since launch and i can say i know the class quite well, but still leaning small bits from guides like this.

What i would like to know what your statpriority / aim is. How much crit/power/accuracy/alacrity do you aim for and why?
Is that a hairstyle, or did a womp rat die on your head?

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
06.04.2013 , 03:12 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by quantez View Post
What i would like to know what your statpriority / aim is. How much crit/power/accuracy/alacrity do you aim for and why?
i actually left that out of the guide because i'm not sure where it should be in 2.0

in 1.7, i got my crit from anywhere between 200-350, put the rest into power, and went all surge, completely ignoring accuracy.

now i'm not sure.
i know accuracy should be 100-110%, but that's about it.
we get 6-8% alacrity from skills, so it seems it's not necessary to add any more, but i don't know how surge really acts with our build anymore.


my commando is my main, and that's who's normally brought for raids lately, so my scoundrel is still rocking a 66 mainhand along with a smattering of 66, 69, and 72 mods
as a result, i haven't had the chance to play around with stats.


i did play around on pts, and i believe about 435 was the cutoff point for accuracy, then i went all surge
i got my crit to around 200, but this was mostly anecdotal. i just heard the 'magic number of 200' being thrown around a lot.

i'm sure someone can do a lot better with than i can. also i imagine it might be a bit different depending on your spec since dirty fighting gets energy back with bleed crits.



maybe i'll just write about what i know for stat weights (along with relics, etc.) without getting too specific until someone can convince me otherwise.

DrKlep's Avatar


DrKlep
06.05.2013 , 08:08 AM | #19
I've been doing some tinkering with my Scrapper's rotation, and what I've found is that if your alacrity is high enough (mine is around 370), you can actually fit both Sabotage Charge and XS Freighter Flyby in on (or nearly on) cooldown. I've preferred Sabo Charge to the Flyby for a while both because it requires less down time and because it doesn't require the target to be stationary, but being able to use both is clearly better than just using one or the other.

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
06.05.2013 , 08:52 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by DrKlep View Post
I've been doing some tinkering with my Scrapper's rotation, and what I've found is that if your alacrity is high enough (mine is around 370), you can actually fit both Sabotage Charge and XS Freighter Flyby in on (or nearly on) cooldown. I've preferred Sabo Charge to the Flyby for a while both because it does more single-target damage and because it doesn't require the target to be stationary, but being able to use both is clearly better than just using one or the other.
could you elaborate a bit more on that?

how much is that in percent? about 4%, so do you have a total of 12% with rolling punches and black market mods?

with a stat budget of 790 (7 enhancements + implants + earpiece), you need around 432 accuracy to reach the 10% you need to make sure you have no misses.
so your build has less than 10% accuracy (not necessarily a bad thing, just clarifying)?
how much surge do you use?

i'll have to login to check for sure, but i'm fairly certain sabotage charge is kinetic damage, while flyby is all elemental, so the latter does more damage.


i've actually taken sabotage charge out of my rotation since 2.0 because i had a lot of trouble managing the 25 energy cost. i think what made flyby more manageable was the 3s cast-time. perhaps i could just make sure to follow sabo charge with flurry of bolts. how do you manage the energy cost? or do you feel it's not much of a problem?


if you want to write a bit more, i can add it to the guide when i finally talk around to talking about gearing and stats.