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Why can't we get set-gear from our own ressources?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why can't we get set-gear from our own ressources?

TheLake's Avatar


TheLake
04.29.2013 , 12:13 PM | #11
As you pointed out:
Before 2.0 you could craft the BiS gear and put it in free tionese for set bonus. No raiding required.
In 2.0 you can get ultimate comms in weeklies (yes, it will take a long time if you are not raiding, but you have many weeks before new content)
HM FP's drops elite because it's the next step in the progression. SM ops drop Arkanian and Black Market (elite quality) as well, but with set bonus (because it's the next step to HM/NiM ops).
If you could easily acquire set bonus without raiding you could just do the weeklies and put it in the set bonus gear. Gongrats, you got BiS without raiding at all. It takes away the feeling of achieving something for the hard core raiders (or those closest to hard core in SWTOR).

I support this, it gives semi raiders a set-bonus and they can get underworld gear, but their armoring will still be arkanian gear. Those who do not raid will not have the set bonus, but can still reach underworld quality gear. Those who raid and clear everything will get underworld gear with underworld armorings (and therefore set bonus).

I'm no elitist, and I don't have any set bonus. I have yet to kill kephess HM (still I have done bosses in TFB HM). I have been playing since before launch and I got my first (and only) dread-guard piece 2 weeks before 2.0. I only have an arkanian implant so far from tokens, but I enjoy working for my gear and socializing in my casual guild. I chose to play the game like this, and I like what BioWare did. You get rewarded for what you do (and no insta-BiS for all alts if you only can play sorc healer aka. Legacy BiS from crafting)

There goes our reason for supporting this system. Actually wanting to work for what you get is not something only those who have gotten it wants.

Zombietroll's Avatar


Zombietroll
04.29.2013 , 12:13 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Until there is an explanation provided for how set bonuses on easily obtained gear damages the game or the players who are raiding current hard modes, I have no choice but to stick with this theory.
And what, do tell, do you need those set bonuses for if you aren't raiding? HM Flashpoints are already cake in 69 gear. Is it a need to feel special? A need to have everything attainable? Or maybe you just really want to one-shot those mobs from Makeb dailies? Whatever the case, you don't need the gear for the content that you are running, and you won't ever earn it until you either man up and do some operations, or Bioware comes out with a new set of gear and renders this set obsolete.
Cheezeburger - Jedi Covenant - 55 Operative Healer

Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
04.29.2013 , 12:18 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
The rest of your comment fails, not surprisingly, to address what exactly the problem was with set bonuses on widely available gear (probably because there was no problem).

Until there is an explanation provided for how set bonuses on easily obtained gear damages the game or the players who are raiding current hard modes, I have no choice but to stick with this theory.
You have yet to explain the problem with the set bonus not being widely available on purchasable gear is causing?

Would you please enlighten us on what specifically you are doing that is requiring you to have the set bonus which you are missing?

Until you do that, we have no choice but to tell you your theory is wrong.

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
04.29.2013 , 12:41 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
You have yet to explain the problem with the set bonus not being widely available on purchasable gear is causing?
Actually I said it many times, but your elitist hat must cover your eyes. Bioware took something away that we used to have, instead of providing a new step in the progression. It was a stupid and needless design decision on their part, which the OP decided to point out.

But hold on, here come all the "hardcore raiders" (by the way, I do raid, and have bonuses on a couple of toons) to defend any move by bioware that creates a separation between the haves and the have-nots. Anything they can point to and say, "Look I have this and you don't, so I am good and you are bad," is sacred and must be staunchly protected.

Your cute little reversal of my question was a sad attempt to hide this pathetic attitude.....

edit: .....although here is an example of you being pretty brazen about it.

Quote:
You have SM Operations which are puggable for average and mediocre players. Stick to that, and leave the "raiding" gear to the players who actually need it.

You have already reached the ceiling of your capacities, and gear is not going to help you, even if it was purchasable.
Fortunately, the odds of you being on my server are relatively slim.
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LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
04.29.2013 , 12:44 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Zombietroll View Post
And what, do tell, do you need those set bonuses for if you aren't raiding?
You don't. You also don't need level 66 or level 69 gear, which you can get from HM FPs, if you aren't raiding, since the story modes are easily done in full 63s. So I'm confused. Is your point that we should be able to get set bonuses from flashpoints? Or that we shouldn't get 66/69 gear from flashpoints?
A classic sig that should not be lost:
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Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
04.29.2013 , 01:16 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Actually I said it many times, but your elitist hat must cover your eyes. Bioware took something away that we used to have, instead of providing a new step in the progression. It was a stupid and needless design decision on their part, which the OP decided to point out.
Actually lets rewind to the beginning. Originally Bioware made it so set bonuses were only obtainable from raiding. So if we use your own logic, it seems the addition of purchasable set bonus gear is the outlier, and things have now been restored to their original design intention.

Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
But hold on, here come all the "hardcore raiders" (by the way, I do raid, and have bonuses on a couple of toons) to defend any move by bioware that creates a separation between the haves and the have-nots. Anything they can point to and say, "Look I have this and you don't, so I am good and you are bad," is sacred and must be staunchly protected.
There will always be a separation between the haves and the have-nots because there exists different tiers of content which will not be completed by some players. BiS gear should not, and moving forward will not be craftable.

I will reiterate that the previous tier of gear and content is the "mistake" and gave players something they should not have had to begin with: BiS raid gear without raiding.

Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Your cute little reversal of my question was a sad attempt to hide this pathetic attitude.....
Your argument falls flat once you were asked to provide a valid reason why you need the gear. And as such you cannot so you simply deflect the question with statements implying that it is "elitism" that is preventing you from obtaining the gear.

Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Fortunately, the odds of you being on my server are relatively slim.
I count myself fortunate as well I am not on your server.

So we have circled back to the original statement. You acknowledge that you do not need the raid gear for anything but raiding. Your whole argument is based upon the fact that you "used to have it" and now you don't. I have proven that the original design intent was that you shouldn't have received it in the first place and it was corrected with 2.0. So therefore your argument is invalid and baseless.

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
04.29.2013 , 01:27 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Did my first HM 55 yesterday; tanking Cademimu. Found it downright frantic dealing with cc, aggro, how squishy I suddenly am, and new mechanics. We wiped once and had a couple of deaths here and there, but the entire group seemed to be enjoying themselves. Flashpoints are actually a challenge again!

You know what I'm not excited about? The entire swtor community gearing past the content to the point that they becomes farm instances, where wipes and slowdowns make group members irritable.
I thought it would be good to accurately represent your point of view to the rest of the posters in this thread.

There is no point in attempting to have a rational discussion with someone who views HM Flashpoints as a challenge. Although I am confused as to your not looking forward to players overgearing the content, while at the same time advocating the casual players (who mostly only do HM Flashpoints and SM Operations) have access to the BiS gear?

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
04.29.2013 , 02:12 PM | #18
Some of your quotes are re-ordered because it made more sense to address them in that order.

Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
Actually lets rewind to the beginning. Originally Bioware made it so set bonuses were only obtainable from raiding. So if we use your own logic, it seems the addition of purchasable set bonus gear is the outlier, and things have now been restored to their original design intention.
As I recall, the endboss on hard mode flashpoints dropped a tionese token based on what the flashpoint was (e.g., gloves from Taral V) and this piece had a set bonus.

Do you have a source to the contrary?

Quote:
I will reiterate that the previous tier of gear and content is the "mistake" and gave players something they should not have had to begin with: BiS raid gear without raiding.
Craftable 63's is what enabled people to get BiS raid gear without raiding. The set bonus had nothing to do with that.

Quote:
So we have circled back to the original statement. You acknowledge that you do not need the raid gear for anything but raiding. Your whole argument is based upon the fact that you "used to have it" and now you don't. I have proven that the original design intent was that you shouldn't have received it in the first place and it was corrected with 2.0. So therefore your argument is invalid and baseless.
You haven't proven anything. You've just shown that the system is "back" to the way you think it should be. I could just as easily say that making the bonuses more obtainable was the design intent that fixed the original oversight (after all, it was left like that for a much longer time). I always find kids who claim to have "proven" anything on an internet forum to be quite amusing.

Quote:
Your argument falls flat once you were asked to provide a valid reason why you need the gear. And as such you cannot so you simply deflect the question with statements implying that it is "elitism" that is preventing you from obtaining the gear.
You need to work on your reading comprehension and debating skills. I clearly said above that I am doing fine obtaining the set bonuses, though I still think the design decision was stupid. With reading skills like that, it's no wonder you claim false proofs and reject valid arguments out of hand.

In the end, the set bonuses are unnecessary but they also don't do any harm if they are widely available. So it's a matter of opinion. The OP expressed his frustration and I echoed it. I thought it was really asinine that I had to temporarily give up my set bonuses as part of a progression that earns them back. I suppose I should have expected a wave of people to rush in and stand up for every last bit of game mechanics that allows them to claim superiority over other gamers. The fault was mine for having too much faith in the community.

But you have taught me not to make that mistake again.
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TrillOG-'s Avatar


TrillOG-
04.29.2013 , 03:20 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Raiding already rewards the best PvE gear. Can't even get it with crafting anymore. Your comment is as stupid as it is elitist. Or do you think that you should decide what "perks" raid gear does and does not have?

Meanwhile, the set bonuses in PvP are as easy to get as they ever were.

Troll somewhere else, and remember never to go full retard.
You sound ridiculous. I'm guessing you're one of those people who believes that you should be able to buy BiS gear as well? Maybe they should make it so you can just buy the set bonus along with the 72 armorings. Why not? Right? The set bonuses in PvP require constant grinding PvP matches to obtain, aka doing the content. What would be the point of raiding over and over if you could just run countless fp's and get the gear? The ONLY reason people make posts like this is because they either can't clear the content, therefore not deserving to have the gear in the first place, or are just lazy.

If you can't clear the hardest content, you don't deserve to wear the gear, end of story. Remember pre 2.0 when people would say they were in full "dread" (aka 63s with no set bonus, not being actual dread.) and then you would take them into TFB hm, and they couldn't figure out what to do? Yeah, don't want more of that.

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
04.29.2013 , 06:55 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
I agree that the decision to gate our access to set gear was very stupid. They compounded that by having the new set-less armorings erase an existing set bonus on a tionese, columi or rakata piece.

It's like they designed it specifically to be as obnoxious and frustrating as possible.
It is far less frustrating than it was in the days of Rakata before armorings could even be moved. Then you had to hope the piece you wanted for your class dropped off the boss that had a chance to drop it, AND hope you won the roll.

Many groups would exclude good players from raids simply because they didn't want to have to roll against them, or to improve the odds of gear for their class dropping.