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"Mandalorian Fist" 21/23/2 PvP Tank/DPS Hybrid

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
"Mandalorian Fist" 21/23/2 PvP Tank/DPS Hybrid

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
04.28.2013 , 09:49 PM | #1
I created this spec based on the old tank/dps hybrid of Taugrim, ďIron FistĒ (25/14/2), which is focused entirely on pvp. What makes this spec different is it spends more points in AP tree to gain more dps power from PFT with good AoE capability from Oil Slick and free Flame Sweeps.

*Updated the spec by taking 1 point from iron fist and 1 point from hamstring to flame surge. This solves the heat problem of the spec now.

23/22/1
Mandalorian Fist

Basic single target rotation:
JC>RB>RS>FB>FSx2>PFT>RP(if flame barrage procs)
Basic AoE rotation: (with Oil Slick)
JC>FB>FSx2>PFT>DFA

*Always use guard on a focused teammate after Jet Charge before going to the rotation.

This specís strength is mitigation and AoE. It focuses on two 2% mitigation talents, 3% mitigation from rebraced armor, and 5% mitigation from IGC in a total of 12% damage reduction against all damage types, plus the 5% damage debuff from combust with PFT and free FS to spread the pressure among multiple targets.

This spec is designed for close-quarters combat gameplay and excells in the thick of things. You can dps, tank, shutdown casters and healers, while retaining guard, charge, and debuff capability.

It is really effective for me in pvp. The new oil slick brings huge team utility. In Voidstar offense, you can use it to slow the other team while rushing to the end point. In huttball, you can place it easily near pits to slow the ball carrier and buy more time for your team. In Ancient Hypergates, you can easily place it on the other teamís door and slow them while your team gather all nodes and gain advantage. Its ability to slow and get people stuck in its big radius makes it a good addition for PTs, with the bonus of accuracy debuff. Furthermore, it also synergizes beautifully with Prototype Flame Thrower and Death From Above making AoEs easy to plant.

It is much effective now to play a PT objectively with the availability of CCís, mobility, and durability while maintaining good dps.

Heat management is no longer a problem now with the addition of flame surge. Using free RP and FS wisely, planning heat build-up right while setting up PFT, and maximizing Thermal Sensor Overrides are all important to avoid overheating.

At lv55 dps pvp gear, I was currently running at 26.57 Ė 28.57% damage reduction depending if itís pyro or AP. With this spec Iím sitting at 48.11% and will be bolstered up to 50% inside a warzone. 50% mitigation in dps gear is a big thing and is the main reason this spec works. The increased survivability contributes with sustained damage and pressure.

Gearing requires a 4pc Combat Tech or 4 pc Supercommando set with dps mods, enh, and augments. The 15% shield chance buff from IGC is so much worth taking advantage of by using a Supercommando shield offhand secondary to the improvement with shielding mechanic and to benefit from shield vents.

Due to lack of time, I have not tried this spec yet for rateds. Will update soon.

Screenshots:
Novare Coast 900k dam + 200k prot
Voidstar 600k dam + 300k prot
Voidstar 600k dam + 500k prot
Hankk Dubs
Scrapper Scoundrel
Backrocket Bastards
RP swag, PvP flagged.

Siphorus's Avatar


Siphorus
04.29.2013 , 12:02 AM | #2
lol this is awful
Deft - The bastion

quirez's Avatar


quirez
04.29.2013 , 01:18 AM | #3
i have to say that i am not a fan of tank hybrids on PT...

you can do all, yet you can barely do anything but play the objectives:

1.you have moderate to good survavibility - but you lack alot in comparison to full tank tree - heat shield, heat blast, heals from shoulder cannon, skipped defensive passives. having oil slick is fun, but thats still far from making this build great.

2. you have moderate to low dmg - ok having PFT is nice BUT its a very situational skill, you run ion cylinder which reduces you dmg alot in comparison to other cylinders and besides PFT you basically got nothing, RS is is neither critting, nor proccing, no immolate, no 7stacked shoulder cannon.
considering dps you just run around doing Retractable blade+flameburst spam? RS on cooldown without buffs? and flamethrower which is easily avoidable.

3. burst? im sorry, what? where? uhm, no.

4. you have a skill that makes Rocket punch use no heat IF you use immolate, yet you have no immolate...
no ablative upgrades, no hydraulic shielding - the defensive power of a PT is his SHIELD, thats why the tank tree is called SHIELDtech, and yet you did not take skills improving it.

wanna do hybrid? go pyro - its a most hybridable tree for PT. get either oil slick + some defence passives with pyro or just basic dps pyro/AP hybrid.
Operative Siduri
Sniper Yai'co

SWORN ENEMY

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
04.29.2013 , 07:59 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
1.you have moderate to good survavibility - but you lack alot in comparison to full tank tree - heat shield, heat blast, heals from shoulder cannon, skipped defensive passives. having oil slick is fun, but thats still far from making this build great.
Like I've said, this spec is not a full tank nor full dps. Gearing for this spec is dps, so we don't need the talents beyond jet charge. We're only after the mitigation talents on the shield tree.

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
2. you have moderate to low dmg - ok having PFT is nice BUT its a very situational skill, you run ion cylinder which reduces you dmg alot in comparison to other cylinders and besides PFT you basically got nothing, RS is is neither critting, nor proccing, no immolate, no 7stacked shoulder cannon.
considering dps you just run around doing Retractable blade+flameburst spam? RS on cooldown without buffs? and flamethrower which is easily avoidable.
Again, this is not a full dps spec. It is designed to control, pressure, shutdown casters with its mobility, CC-capability, and survivability. IGC is a tanking tree, but this spec still brings good numbers, even at top of dps on most regular warzones with good protection. I will try to post some videos if time permits it.

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
3. burst? im sorry, what? where? uhm, no.
I did not say anything about burst. Our class has so much to give, not just burst.

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
4. you have a skill that makes Rocket punch use no heat IF you use immolate, yet you have no immolate...
no ablative upgrades, no hydraulic shielding - the defensive power of a PT is his SHIELD, thats why the tank tree is called SHIELDtech, and yet you did not take skills improving it.
Like I said, not a full tanking spec. We only focused on mitigation (damage reduction) talents, but still using a tanking offhand to leverage the 15% shield buff from IGC. It's definitely worth getting now than before with "Iron Fist" due to the buff with shield stat.

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
wanna do hybrid? go pyro - its a most hybridable tree for PT. get either oil slick + some defence passives with pyro or just basic dps pyro/AP hybrid.
Going pyro means taking CGC, which is not the goal of this spec. You must have not heard of "Iron Fist" at the earlier stages of this game. It's completely viable and It works. You can google it for more information.

A lot of PT players only focus on damage numbers, which is very superficial. This spec does not follow that path, it plays more like an immortal tank with dps gear and tank offhand. It's built for objective gameplay, which is important for winning pvp matches.
Hankk Dubs
Scrapper Scoundrel
Backrocket Bastards
RP swag, PvP flagged.

quirez's Avatar


quirez
04.29.2013 , 09:36 AM | #5
Quote:
Again, this is not a full dps spec. It is designed to control, pressure, shutdown casters with its mobility, CC-capability, and survivability. IGC is a tanking tree, but this spec still brings good numbers, even at top of dps on most regular warzones with good protection. I will try to post some videos if time permits it.

control them with what? oil slick alone?

1. slows and stuns - you got no flame sweep slow, no ion gas cylinder slow. ok you took the RB slow but thats not enough. no stun cooldown reduce taken.

2. movement and mobility- no speed on jet charge, no speed from AP cylinder, no increased time for hydraulic overrides

3. having grapple improving skills taken is a standart for any pvp-tank build, i dont see why making hybrid out of it makes it any good

"designed to pressure and shutdown casters with mobility and survavibility" - seriously, care to elaborate on that i just really dont get what does that mean - you wanna run around them to confuse them, or make them laugh at you? and you dont really have that much survavibility either.

"bringin good numbers? topping dps charts?" with what, may i ask again? PFT alone? you really dont have anything besides it in your build. if you top dps charts with PFT than i doubt your opponents in WZ are old enough to purchase their own beer... even if you do put good numbers its a fluff aoe dmg from flame thrower and death from above, or simply a gear gap - becouse any dps spec SHOULD do much more



Quote:
Gearing for this spec is dps, so we don't need the talents beyond jet charge.
so you go high up tank tree while gearing for dps (but you take shield offhand and use ion gas cylinder) and only taking jet charge? it could've work in 1.7 or before, but i really doubt it works now...

Quote:
I did not say anything about burst. Our class has so much to give, not just burst.
and you want to pressure all those people with what? do you even plan to kill people with this spec? or just pressure them with no dmg and control them with no slows/stuns?

Quote:
A lot of PT players only focus on damage numbers, which is very superficial. This spec does not follow that path, it plays more like an immortal tank with dps gear and tank offhand. It's built for objective gameplay, which is important for winning pvp matches.
playing a tank in dps gear is soooo 1.7ish - want to tank and support objectives and healers - go make a full tank, they are great nowadays. there is NOTHING this build can do that a full tank wouldnt do better (even dps probably due to better heat management, spamming flamesweep and flame engine skill)

also if you want a survivable and mobile huttball build check out this thread:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=629455


PS. sorry if i sound too harsh here or there ;P
Operative Siduri
Sniper Yai'co

SWORN ENEMY

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
04.29.2013 , 09:55 AM | #6
I understand where you're coming from. This spec has no burst and not designed for 1v1 combat, i give you that. Its survivability is actually good for a hybrid. It also has better damage than full ST because of PFT, though ST has better heat management. I would suggest you give it a try for a couple of games because it is working for me. I was also thinking if dropping 2 points off PFT would be a good idea to maximize resource.
Hankk Dubs
Scrapper Scoundrel
Backrocket Bastards
RP swag, PvP flagged.

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
04.29.2013 , 11:59 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
1. slows and stuns - you got no flame sweep slow, no ion gas cylinder slow. ok you took the RB slow but thats not enough. no stun cooldown reduce taken.

2. movement and mobility- no speed on jet charge, no speed from AP cylinder, no increased time for hydraulic overrides

3. having grapple improving skills taken is a standart for any pvp-tank build, i dont see why making hybrid out of it makes it any good
I actually consider picking up the 2 free stacks of FS. Picking up the FS slow would be detrimental for the build as i will skip better talents for it. As for stun CD, it is a situational talent that is not supposed to be abused whenever it's up. The shortened quell is more favorable because it's a more on demand ability.

Jet charge and HO already provides us with good mobility, so those points are better invested somewhere else.
Hankk Dubs
Scrapper Scoundrel
Backrocket Bastards
RP swag, PvP flagged.

quirez's Avatar


quirez
04.29.2013 , 11:12 PM | #8
Quote:
I understand where you're coming from. This spec has no burst and not designed for 1v1 combat, i give you that. Its survivability is actually good for a hybrid. It also has better damage than full ST because of PFT, though ST has better heat management. I would suggest you give it a try for a couple of games because it is working for me. I was also thinking if dropping 2 points off PFT would be a good idea to maximize resource.
its not for 1vs1 and has no burst + the only skill that makes it stronger in the dps department than the full tank build is a very situational and easily avoidable conal aoe. PFT + DOA are great for putting high numbers, but they are rarely killing any1 - we can see it on the screens you provided - that novare must have lasted 30 minutes or something + there is about 3m+ healing on your opponents side, little numbers of deaths/kills on each side.

voidstar - you put a nice portion of dmg in there BUT 18 kills? again we can say that was fluff aoe, and while i admit in voidstar its whats needed (doa on the doors, Flame thrower while standing near doors is good and important in voidstar) every basic powertech build can do it, and can do it better.

the screens probably prove that you are a skilled player, but they do not make the build look better in my opinion.

Quote:
I actually consider picking up the 2 free stacks of FS. Picking up the FS slow would be detrimental for the build as i will skip better talents for it. As for stun CD, it is a situational talent that is not supposed to be abused whenever it's up. The shortened quell is more favorable because it's a more on demand ability.

Jet charge and HO already provides us with good mobility, so those points are better invested somewhere else.
i know you couldnt take both FS slow and PFT, too few talent points to do that but if you want some control and cc's like you said before than i think FS slow >> fluff PFT dmg (again i know PFT is great, but ALONE it doesnt change anything).
i agree shortened quell is a must in pvp, id gladly see it in my full tank build.

having jet charge + HO is good mobility? yeah but EVERY tank has it, and you can spec into sooooo much more with tank for huttball if you take those speeds and longer HO and other movement improving stuff.

i do believe you make this build work, but i find it strongly inferior to any full tank build.
Operative Siduri
Sniper Yai'co

SWORN ENEMY

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
04.30.2013 , 06:54 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
its not for 1vs1 and has no burst + the only skill that makes it stronger in the dps department than the full tank build is a very situational and easily avoidable conal aoe. PFT + DOA are great for putting high numbers, but they are rarely killing any1 - we can see it on the screens you provided - that novare must have lasted 30 minutes or something + there is about 3m+ healing on your opponents side, little numbers of deaths/kills on each side.
Yah, there was 3 healers on each team on that game. I was guarding the south node and we were winning at the last minutes, before somebody on our team got disconnected. That explains the 4% to 0 score.

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
voidstar - you put a nice portion of dmg in there BUT 18 kills? again we can say that was fluff aoe, and while i admit in voidstar its whats needed (doa on the doors, Flame thrower while standing near doors is good and important in voidstar) every basic powertech build can do it, and can do it better.
We were on a disadvantage on that match because we faced an experienced pre-made. Though if you will check, I still got the highest kill number on my team. Also, some of my teammates could have done a better job with their dps.

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
having jet charge + HO is good mobility? yeah but EVERY tank has it, and you can spec into sooooo much more with tank for huttball if you take those speeds and longer HO and other movement improving stuff.
I prefer to make it more applicable to all warzones, and not just focus on huttball. I actually tried a mobility spec before just like what you're saying. It is really effective in that wz, however i don't find the benefit of it in other maps.

Quote: Originally Posted by quirez View Post
i do believe you make this build work, but i find it strongly inferior to any full tank build.
In terms of survivability, yes, full tank will always be superior. What this build brings is better damage in a tanking stance and getting all talents that beefs-up mitigation.

I think i would stick with PFT as it delivers good AoE damage and snare too as compared to Flame Sweep's slow and low damage. The only reason I picked-up flame surge is to help build up PFT and manage heat.
Hankk Dubs
Scrapper Scoundrel
Backrocket Bastards
RP swag, PvP flagged.

Brunner_Venda's Avatar


Brunner_Venda
05.01.2013 , 07:54 AM | #10
I can understand why you're defending your build.

Problem is that hybrids are all terrible at the moment, and it's time to admit that you've made yet another bad spec with a cute forum name for some kind of 'cred'.

In the end, it's more likely that you're just a really good player who would do even better with a dedicated shield, AP, or pyro. Maybe this suits your play style better, but it probably won't for anyone else.