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The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 06: Kit Fisto vs. Agen Kolar

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 06: Kit Fisto vs. Agen Kolar

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
05.01.2013 , 08:26 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I'm still not convinced that it would be a wise strategy. He would have to leave himself open to attack to do this. Or at least find a way to buy himself time. He is known for being very fast, so if an opening is created that would give him time.

(Just thinking out loud here)We know that Kit Fisto preaches restraint, but then I think he would give a good Force Push to Kolar if he had to. Heck, he could even use Kolar's tendency to suddenly use Force Push to do this. But then there's the issue of Kolar making a quick follow up.

It would probably fall to Fisto to create a gap.
Yeah, however Fisto would be looking at the fact Kolar is the better duelist in a straight up fight, so he's going to have to do something entirely unorthodox to win, and this would qualify.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.01.2013 , 09:03 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Yeah, however Fisto would be looking at the fact Kolar is the better duelist in a straight up fight, so he's going to have to do something entirely unorthodox to win, and this would qualify.
Considering Fisto's lightsaber style is unpredictable and random, I wouldn't hesitate to say that such a tactic is in a possibility for him.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

ZahirS's Avatar


ZahirS
05.01.2013 , 09:07 PM | #33
Sounds good, to make a gap somehow would buy fisto more time, maybe Kolar would use this also to make his tera kasi more effective

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.02.2013 , 11:21 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Actually, the Jedi Apprentice books indicate otherwise, specifically book 7.

If the pipes are in the walls, chances are they would not be that hard to get to, in case of a pipe bursting, they would want to be able to get to said pipe fairly quickly so they don't start having a mold problem...

All Fisto has to do is spray Kolar and his saber with a lot of water, which would be fairly easy to do. The place doesn't need to partially submerged in order for him to short out a lightsaber.

Come on people don't tell me none of you have ever handled garden hoses before...
Perhaps be a bit more specific?

I highly doubt that in the advanced era Star Wars exists in that mold will be a problem. And that's making the assumption that pipes run through the library. Since we don't have the facts we can only make one observation: there are no water features or water consuming device in the Jedi Library, we therefore have no reason to assume that pipes run through the walls.

Not to mention that Fisto, as far as I'm aware, has no means of 'sensing' the pipes and no guarantee that Kolar will walk straight into the trap and not just avoid the water or shield himself etc.

And that's making the assumption that a gush of water will short out Kolar's lightsaber. If that was case Operation: Knightfall would have had clones armed with water pistols...

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.02.2013 , 04:26 PM | #35
I think it's about time we moved on from the water pipes discussion. I'll keep the argument in mind, but I think we should move on to other areas of debate.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
05.03.2013 , 01:10 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
If anything, it would seem that he has skill in at least two lightsaber forms: Niman and Shii-Cho (Possible Ataru as well). Considering what we know of his exploits, his skill could encompass several lightsaber forms, or just that he has mastered one form really well.
Saying he had skill in more then one saber form is kind of not really a big surprise for the time being as many masters of the order at the time had mastered several forms. One of the things that is always noted though is that most of the masters use a form that allows them to bypass one of their own physical or mental weaknesses (such as yoda using ataru to attack from angles normally impossible for his stature or windu using vapaad to channel his own darkness to something good) or they use it to supplement a strength or mental way of thought. For this reason while he may incorperate other styles i still believe over all Agen is using Shii-Cho as its heavy emphasis on disarming and his heavy prefrence for disarming. Obviously he uses some tera kasi with this but using the force with a form is doable with all forms just more common with Niman but that can be said do to niman's role as the diplomat's form. But if there was a form that was common for using force powers other then Niman it would be Shii-cho. I suspect its possible that he (like Vader and Luke with their djem so) may have hybridized his Shii-cho adding in elements of ataru to offset a weakness maybe completely bypassing its weakness with single opponents, by using the more agile movements of ataru to avoid attacks while still using the same basic principles of Shii-cho for making attacks. This would make him a very deadly saber duelist, along with in this case his resistance to pain and any powerful force attacks from Fisto might just be shrugged off while he continues to press the assault.

I see this being a long duel in which Agen comes out on top after both of them end up a little battered, Agens resistance to pain, unpredictable usage of force push and usage of tera kasi gives him a serious edge in this fight.

Side note on the water pipe thing 1. Doubt Agen will let Fisto do this. 2. even if he does Lightsabers have shown to work in the rain just fine no reason anything less then total submerssion will short it out. 3. Even if he manages to do so it really wont flood the library he will have a little water to play with but nothing to make the difference so its ultimately a waste of time and energy on his part.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.03.2013 , 12:33 PM | #37
You make a good point about Kolar's lightsaber form, tunewalker. However, I'm still not convinced on who would win.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.03.2013 , 02:11 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
*snip*
Sincere question here, but where is everyone getting this information on Kolar's lightsaber abilities? I aware that he fought Quinlan Vos... could anyone give me a run down on the facts?

Its just that personally I don't see Kolar wielding Shii-Cho. It was extremely rare for a Jedi to use Shii-Cho as anything other than a basic dueling form. Fisto is the only known example (I believe) of a Jedi who mastered the form. Its more likely to be a mixture of several forms.

I am actually not convinced as to who would win. Fisto has the advantage of having a highly unpredictable and highly aggresive lightsaber form. One that is not weak in terms of attack against single opponents, but weaker in terms of defense. Can Kolar exploit such weaknesses? I can't say for sure, I'm unaware of his form. However I doubt he wields Makashi so he won't have that advantage.

Also note, and I think Aurbere was mistaken in reaching this conclusion, Fisto has no qualms about using Force powers in battle. He taught restraint but I reality I believe this was simply a universal Jedi dogma. His style was highly aggressive on the levels of Vaapad - as in drawing him close the dark side. That is not restraint. He was skilled in chaining his lightsaber attacks with Force powers, so I believe Aurbere was incorrect in given Kolar a Force Power edge, and likewise a mentality edge. I think his comment about restraint is misleading, he was far from a restrained duelist.

Also, Fisto was a highly agile and acrobatic, as well as being an unarmed combat expert. Given that Kolar has skilled in unarmed combat as well, and incorporated this into lightsaber duels, we can assume Fisto would do the same and to greater effect.

So, Kolar has the following edges against Fisto - on the assumption their mastery of the lightsaber is relatively equal:

  • Defense weakness of Fisto's form against single opponents.

Fisto on the other hand:

  • A highly random, unpredictable and unorthodox form.
  • Highly agile and acrobatic.
  • An expert unarmed combatant.
  • Powerful telekinetic abilities - given the fact that he is a consular.

So, after a reconsideration, I think Fisto would win. (Sticking with that, I promise )

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.03.2013 , 02:23 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Sincere question here, but where is everyone getting this information on Kolar's lightsaber abilities? I aware that he fought Ulic-Qel Droma... could anyone give me a run down on the facts?

Its just that personally I don't see Kolar wielding Shii-Cho. It was extremely rare for a Jedi to use Shii-Cho as anything other than a basic dueling form. Fisto is the only known example (I believe) of a Jedi who mastered the form. Its more likely to be a mixture of several forms.

I am actually not convinced as to who would win. Fisto has the advantage of having a highly unpredictable and highly aggresive lightsaber form. One that is not weak in terms of attack against single opponents, but weaker in terms of defense. Can Kolar exploit such weaknesses? I can't say for sure, I'm unaware of his form. However I doubt he wields Makashi so he won't have that advantage.

Also note, and I think Aurbere was mistaken in reaching this conclusion, Fisto has no qualms about using Force powers in battle. He taught restraint but I reality I believe this was simply a universal Jedi dogma. His style was highly aggressive on the levels of Vaapad - as in drawing him close the dark side. That is not restraint. He was skilled in chaining his lightsaber attacks with Force powers, so I believe Aurbere was incorrect in given Kolar a Force Power edge, and likewise a mentality edge. I think his comment about restraint is misleading, he was far from a restrained duelist.

Also, Fisto was a highly agile and acrobatic, as well as being an unarmed combat expert. Given that Kolar has skilled in unarmed combat as well, and incorporated this into lightsaber duels, we can assume Fisto would do the same and to greater effect.

So, Kolar has the following edges against Fisto - on the assumption their mastery of the lightsaber is relatively equal:

  • Defense weakness of Fisto's form against single opponents.

Fisto on the other hand:

  • A highly random, unpredictable and unorthodox form.
  • Highly agile and acrobatic.
  • An expert unarmed combatant.
  • Powerful telekinetic abilities - given the fact that he is a consular.

So, after a reconsideration, I think Fisto would win. (Sticking with that, I promise )
First, Kolar fought Quinlan Vos. Second, several Jedi mastered Shii-Cho (Cin Drallig, Mace Windu, Yoda). Third, Fisto constantly preaches restraint.

"Those who have power should restrain themselves from using it."

"I didn't forget to teach you restraint, did I, my old Padawan?"

Plus you used one instance of Force Push. He restrains himself from using powers, but isn't a restrained duelist. Nowhere did I say that he was a restrained duelist. In fact, I was attempting to make that very clear in the OP. Kit Fisto is certainly capable of chaining Force powers into his lightsaber style, but viewed such things as excessive and only did so when absolutely necessary.

This is a case of you misinterpreting what I said, and using that to support your argument. However, bearing that in mind, I am leaning towards your final conclusion, but still undecided.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
05.03.2013 , 02:25 PM | #40
Wait, wait...Kolar fought Ulic Qel-Droma? How is that possible?