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Slavery in Star Wars


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Beniboybling
04.28.2013 , 05:02 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by XantosCledwin View Post
eh, no, Hyperlane is not Slipstream by any stretch of the imagination. Slipstream as defined by the Andromeda series is basically a psuedo-sentient parallel universe that allows for faster than light travel, but which rejects logic and thus cannot be navigated by a computer in any way.

Also, when was the last time you saw Hyperlane allow for travel backwards in time?
OK, in that case I mean hyperspace. For which hyperdrives have been invented. But unforunately this is the Star Wars universe not the Andromeda universe - there is no such thing as a psuedo-sentient parallel universe so I'm not quite sure what your point is...

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Beniboybling
04.28.2013 , 05:04 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by XantosCledwin View Post
You do realize that the human brain is essentially the equivalent of a 1,680,000 MHz Processor? Possibly more... The worlds highest clock speed in computers sits right around a 3.6 GHz Dual Core. 3.6 GHz is basically 3,600 MHz even doubled that is nowhere close to what the human brain is capable of. So I think the Human brain has a higher clock speed than a computer. We cannot actually calculate the processing power of the brain though.

Even if we go out on a leap and assume that computers in Star Wars have vastly superior clock speeds than computers in our world (which need not necessarily be the case seeing as how a large chunk of the tech in Star Wars is absolutely dated by our standards), that still does not necessarily mean that it comes anywhere close to approaching the processing speed of a Human brain. In fact the only Sci Fi tech I have ever seen with such processing capabilities, is Commander Data's Positronic Brain.
Then why did we invent calculators? Potential is one thing, ability is something else entirely. Like it or not the human brain at is current stage is incapable of calculating the the precise calculations necessary to navigate hyperspace without aid.

EDIT: Also a human brain is not connected up to the starship anyway. So either way your going to need some sort of nav computer to input coordinates which essentially is the extent of what your doing.

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XantosCledwin
04.28.2013 , 05:10 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Then why did we invent calculators? Potential is one thing, ability is something else entirely.
Have you ever stopped and asked yourself how many calculations you perform in a single day even when your not thinking about them? Did you know that in order to drive a car, you are constantly performing various types of logistical physics calculations in your brain? When you go grocery shopping you are constantly doing math equations to determine if you have enough money to buy everything, and add to that for the conscientious and healthy shopper the dietary equations to determine if things fit into your diet. Those are just some of the minor things you calculate each and every day. The number of calculations don't even stop when you are asleep, your brain is constantly doing something in order to keep you alive and breathing. Even people in Coma's still have certain brain functions going on that can in their most basic form be boiled down into micro calculations (though in reality its more a matter of Nerves firing at the right times). The Human body is by and large on of the most complicated machines in the universe (at least that we are aware of).

As for the rest of your comments... seriously? We are incapable of navigating hyperspace? All you really need is to re-acquaint yourself with the concepts of Nautical Navigation and then apply 2 more dimensions to it and walla you have Astronavigation. Those two additional dimensions being easily familiar to any Airplane Pilot or Submarine Captain. The only real difference is that George Lucas decided to make Hyperspace some unknown quantity that exists somewhat parallel to main Star Wars Universe and which is difficult for humans to comprehend.

That said, some human or other species of Alien somewhere had to comprehend it at some point in the past of Star Wars at least enough to be able to program all those Nav Computers to be able to navigate Hyperspace to begin with.
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Beniboybling
04.28.2013 , 05:12 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by XantosCledwin View Post
Have you ever stopped and asked yourself how many calculations you perform in a single day even when your not thinking about them? Did you know that in order to drive a car, you are constantly performing various types of logistical physics calculations in your brain? When you go grocery shopping you are constantly doing math equations to determine if you have enough money to buy everything, and add to that for the conscientious and healthy shopper the dietary equations to determine if things fit into your diet. Those are just some of the minor things you calculate each and every day. The number of calculations don't even stop when you are asleep, your brain is constantly doing something in order to keep you alive and breathing. Even people in Coma's still have certain brain functions going on that can in their most basic form be boiled down into micro calculations (though in reality its more a matter of Nerves firing at the right times). The Human body is by and large on of the most complicated machines in the universe (at least that we are aware of).
You did not answer my question... :P

EDIT: If I started calorie counting, I'd probably need a calculator.

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XantosCledwin
04.28.2013 , 05:18 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
You did not answer my question... :P

EDIT: If I started calorie counting, I'd probably need a calculator.
see my edits to my previous post....

And do you consult a calculator when you are driving as well?

Yes I know alot of people use those stupid Satellite Navigation computers, but that's because people of the digital age have grown lazy and have stopped learning how to you know, actually navigate... If you were a Pilot in the U.S. Airforce, or a Captain for the U.S. Navy, you can bet your bottom dollar (god did I actually just type that?) that you would have to learn how to navigate the old fashioned way, just in case your sat nav got fried.
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Beniboybling
04.28.2013 , 05:39 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by XantosCledwin View Post
Yes I know alot of people use those stupid Satellite Navigation computers, but that's because people of the digital age have grown lazy and have stopped learning how to you know, actually navigate... If you were a Pilot in the U.S. Airforce, or a Captain for the U.S. Navy, you can bet your bottom dollar (god did I actually just type that?) that you would have to learn how to navigate the old fashioned way, just in case your sat nav got fried.
This exactly, not everyone who owns a starship is an ace pilot or much of a pilot at all. And even for those who are its much quicker, safer and easier to use a navcomputer. You can plot your destination with a few clicks of a button, rather than pouring over astrogation charts which would likely take several hours and may end in you making incorrect calculations.

In fact, take at look at these pages: Astrogation, astrocartography.

To quote:

Two tasks defined astrogation: (1) determining present location, and (2) planning a safe and reliable means of reaching a destination. The former was performed by those skilled in astrocartography familiar with star patterns or automata.

Astrocartography was the method of pin-pointing galactic coordinates for star systems and adjusting hyperspace routes to ensure that navigation computers were kept up-to-date on the ever-shifting galactic plane. Stars were always in motion, moving around the galaxy at speeds measured in kilometers per second. These updates were recalculated and provided by the Space Ministry, which provided these updates for navicomputers for a nominal fee from ministry offices or via download at a spaceport. To aid the Space Ministry, route and sensor data from starships' navicomputers were routinely uploaded and collected for analysis by the ministry's astrogation bureau.


Plotting hyperspace routes by hand would be time-consuming, dangerous and ineffective. Can you imagine how A New Hope would have gone when they escape the Death Star? "Make the jump to lightspeed!... wait one moment, just need to plot the course *gets out astrogation charts*" Wouldn't have worked would have it?

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XantosCledwin
04.28.2013 , 06:13 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
This exactly, not everyone who owns a starship is an ace pilot or much of a pilot at all. And even for those who are its much quicker, safer and easier to use a navcomputer. You can plot your destination with a few clicks of a button, rather than pouring over astrogation charts which would likely take several hours and may end in you making incorrect calculations.

In fact, take at look at these pages: Astrogation, astrocartography.

To quote:

Two tasks defined astrogation: (1) determining present location, and (2) planning a safe and reliable means of reaching a destination. The former was performed by those skilled in astrocartography familiar with star patterns or automata.

Astrocartography was the method of pin-pointing galactic coordinates for star systems and adjusting hyperspace routes to ensure that navigation computers were kept up-to-date on the ever-shifting galactic plane. Stars were always in motion, moving around the galaxy at speeds measured in kilometers per second. These updates were recalculated and provided by the Space Ministry, which provided these updates for navicomputers for a nominal fee from ministry offices or via download at a spaceport. To aid the Space Ministry, route and sensor data from starships' navicomputers were routinely uploaded and collected for analysis by the ministry's astrogation bureau.


Plotting hyperspace routes by hand would be time-consuming, dangerous and ineffective. Can you imagine how A New Hope would have gone when they escape the Death Star? "Make the jump to lightspeed!... wait one moment, just need to plot the course *gets out astrogation charts*" Wouldn't have worked would have it?
Meh. The only reason that Astrogation works in this manner within Star Wars is because George Lucas couldn't conceive of a better model. Better Models:

Star Trek: Astrogation is not done by an Artificial Intelligence (i.e. Android) except in the case of the few instances where the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D, and later E were being navigated by Commander Data. Rather the crew of the ship has to manually course correct on an almost constant basis (hence why there is always someone at the helm) so that they don't get lost. This is especially important in the case of the U.S.S. Voyager. The only time on the Voyager when the Ships Computer took over navigation is when the Doctor was functioning as the Emergency Tactical Program and no one else was on board to do the job.

Doctor Who May not be the best example of a better model for astrogation seeing as how he so rarely travels through space in a conventional or FTL method instead of folding space, but you have to keep in mind the Doctor is using his organic brain (which admittedly is even more evolved than a humans brain) to make navigational decisions that dwarf even those found in both Star Trek and Star Wars, seeing as how he has the whole of Space and Time to navigate (and even a few parallel universes, and I think he has even gone into his own universes Pre-Universe).

Star Gate Let's count the ways. Hyperspace (similar to both Warp Drive and Star Wars's Hyperspace in that it is a conventional FTL Method). The Stargates themselves (Which only require 7 Coordinates to transfer you from one end of the Galaxy to another, and whats more is that they predate computers in the conventional sense by several millennium). The Destinies FTL Drive (which despite similarities to more convential FTL drives, does not use Hyperspace and is capable of autopilot in Galaxies that the ship's creators had never seen, not to mention the void between galaxies, talk about efficient programming).

I will reiterate again, that even the most advanced Astrogation Computer requires a programer to tell it what to do. So the fact that Star Wars has a need of Astrogation Computers that need to constantly be manually updated in a manner similar to our world's own computers constantly needing to be updated... indicates that the programing package may not be as thorough a job as would be hoped. The Destiny afterall had been traveling from the planet Earth into the farthest reaches of unexplored space for several million years prior to being discovered by the Expedition. What makes that even more impressive is that it was completely on Autopilot that entire time. And even more, it constantly made stops to activate its stargate, land in stars to refuel, and connect with Seed Ships (Which also had been traveling that far a distance also without a crew). But then this is a ship designed by a race of beings who eventually evolved into God-like entities.
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Beniboybling
04.28.2013 , 06:38 AM | #28
^^For the most part I had no idea what you were talking about. Although the Star Trek system seems a lot less efficient that Star Wars given that once you've plotted a course your done. Whereas in Star Trek you have to man the bridge 24/7. But we digress, a lot, this thread is about slavery... see my first post.

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XantosCledwin
04.28.2013 , 06:48 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
^^For the most part I had no idea what you were talking about. Although the Star Trek system seems a lot less efficient that Star Wars given that once you've plotted a course your done. Whereas in Star Trek you have to man the bridge 24/7. But we digress, a lot, this thread is about slavery... see my first post.
And in Star Trek R2-D2, C-3PO and all those other Droids would be free to live their own lives, instead of being the servants of humans the way they are in Star Wars. Afterall, Star Trek (at least post-Commander Data) has ratified the laws of Artificially Intelligent Beings Rights to Self-Determination. In Star Wars the Droids are essentially mechanical slave labor.

And don't even get me started on Stargate's cybernetic lifeforms... those things are downright plague. Whoever thought it was a smart idea to give the ability to self-replicate to an android with the IQ of a 6 year old, needs to have their head checked.
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Beniboybling
04.28.2013 , 06:52 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by XantosCledwin View Post
And in Star Trek R2-D2, C-3PO and all those other Droids would be free to live their own lives, instead of being the servants of humans the way they are in Star Wars. Afterall, Star Trek (at least post-Commander Data) has ratified the laws of Artificially Intelligent Beings Rights to Self-Determination. In Star Wars the Droids are essentially mechanical slave labor.

And don't even get me started on Stargate's cybernetic lifeforms... those things are downright plague.
Are droids in the Star Wars universe sentient enough to deserve rights? *shrug* It seems somewhat perverse to me as essentially droids are automated commodities. There isn't much they can do with 'freedom'.