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Solo PVP (pug groups) do and don't

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Solo PVP (pug groups) do and don't

GrimWolfMachia's Avatar


GrimWolfMachia
04.26.2013 , 03:03 PM | #1
This is a thread for pug groups there seems to be a lot of basic things pug groups don’t do that a lot of us take for granted as basic it. Such as focusing marked healers… it seems once a healer is marked in a pug game they ignore it. Others may not know the basics of their class so I collected some excepts from other forum posts so people can get a better grasp of what they should be doing. The goal of this is so that people who queue solo not feel like every game they play they lose because no one knows what they are doing. Please add to this… think of all the things that you see as common mistakes… instead of ************ about it, post tips and tactics that will prevent silly loses. Unlike premade we don’t get voice in pug groups so let’s educate the pugs.
Know your role (excerpts taken from other forum posts.)

Direct Combat (Zaodon)

Obviously, the key aspect of PvP is the actual fighting that occurs between you and other players. Unlike PvE, where the enemy is generally weaker than you for the most part, PvP has no such balance. There are generally a few types, or categories, of characters you can play and encounter, listed below.
• DPS: a DPS class has but one purpose: deal damage. Not every DPS class is the same, however. Every Basic Class in SWTOR has an Advanced Class option which specializes in DPS. Some Advanced Classes are designed solely as DPS classes, while all the others have options in their skill trees to specialize in DPS if desired.

A DPS character, regardless of Advanced Class, seeks to deal damage as their primary purpose. In general, DPS classes fall into 2 categories: ranged DPS and melee DPS. You will need to quickly learn the difference between them, as their styles are different in how you fight against them effectively. But in general, the most important thing you can do when facing a DPS class is simply not let them attack you. Moving away, hiding behind obstacles, stunning them, interrupting their attacks and otherwise mitigating their damage is most important. Without their damage, they often provide very little other benefit to their team.
• Healer: a Healer has but one purpose: heal team members. There are some varieties to healer classes, but unlike DPS, healers are limited to only 3 classes per side. Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors cannot become healers. There are two categories of healers: primary healers, and secondary healers.

Primary healers are specialized in healing, and its virtually all they do in combat. They are very difficult to take down alone, and often require at least 2 people to kill them. Secondary healers do not specialize in healing, but have built-in basic healing abilities for minor healing/spot healing in crucial moments. These healers are often DPS classes or Utility classes primarily.
• Tank: in general, a Tank class is the class which wades into battle to take the hits, so that their team stays alive to keep fighting. You don't (can't) force enemies to attack you, like in PvE, but by using Guard, Taunts, and interrupts, you can make the opposing team's attacks almost useless unless they're focused on you, and then you rely on your team's healers to keep you alive. Thus, you'll either be taking a beating from all sides but you'll be living like a champ, or they'll continue to attack your healer but won't do much to him because you'll be shunting the damage back onto yourself via guard/taunt. Either way, you're soaking up damage and keeping others alive to do damage.

Tactics-wise, you want to master the use of Guard (primarily on your healer), to keep that healer alive who, in turn, will heal you. You also need to constantly use your Taunt abilities, as they work differently in PvP. In PvP, Taunt (and AoE Taunt if you have it) reduces enemy player damage *unless* they attack you. So, if they are on someone else, like your healer, they will do lots less damage with your Taunt applied, and then even less with your Guard taking off more damage. You need to stick close to your Guarded target at all times.
• Utility: a Utility "class" isn't really so much of a class, as it is a "spec" choice on how you build your character. A Utility class/spec has many talents and skills designed to be useful, but not necessarily damage or heal. Jumps, speed, stuns, pulls, pushes, knockbacks, slows, and protective abilities make up the majority of their actions in combat. There are 2 classes on each side which can be considered the best utility classes: Scoundrels and Sages for Republic, Operatives and Sorcerers for Imperials. However, to some extent, all advanced classes have skills and abilities that provide a lot of utility if you spec them for it.

Utility classes are specialized in... well... messing you up. Or helping their team. Or both. They are usually very easy to kill, however, as they are not durable, nor are they damage or healing powerhouses like DPS or Healers. Good utility players use every skill they have to stay alive and help their team, and can be a real distraction until you take them out.

Tanks

General tanking tips

-Always spam your single target taunt when it is off cooldown. This is a bit of a pain but you need to do it. I recommend binding it to a hotkey that is very easy for you to use frequently. Mine is bound to my mouse wheel up key.

-Save your AoE taunt for either enemy AoEs, or when there are a lot of enemies in the vicinity attacking.

-Swap guards accordingly. If your enemy is only focusing the person you are guarding, there is no need to do this. If the enemy is constantly switching the target they are focusing on, you need to constantly be switching the person you are guarding.

-When both your taunts are down and your guarded target's health is low, use your CCs A lot of times I'll spinning kick one person and use force stun on another. If I see a guardian leap to someone, if I'm in position, I will pull him back before he can use smash on that person.

-When both your taunts are down and YOUR health is low, use your defensive cooldowns. Unless your health is below 50%, don't spam all your defensive cooldowns at once, space them out. Note that there may be occasions where you have to use your defensive cooldowns with taunts up.

-If you're 31/0/10 spec spam slow time/wither every time it is off cooldown.

-Use your AoE knockback when you really need to get a crowd of people off you and/or your guarded target. This is more of a panic/get off me button.

-Buy stun grenades. This will serve the same function as your AoE knockback. It is a panic/get off me button.

-If your health is about 20% or below and dropping, and your guarded target's is above 50%, unguard your target and force cloak out, then either go behind a pillar and meditate, or unstealth and use a warzone medpac. Note that if you are in 22/17/2 you can use the medpacs in force cloak, and can also be healed by healers in force cloak.

-Normally when someone uses a warzone medpac, they can not use one again until they die. This does not apply to shadows. After you've used a warzone medpac, simply Force Cloak, and the warzone medpac will be available again when the cooldown ends.

-Make sure you have warzone medpacs with you at all times. They are vastly superior to Rakata medpacs. Also carry warzone adrenals.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

General Node Guarding/Delaying Tips


Node Guarding


-Your function as a node guarder is NOT to 1v1 the opponents that come, but rather to stall long enough for reinforcements to arrive. The best way to do this is to remain in stealth, out of sight, and use mind maze on any enemy/enemies that try to cap.

-If you see an enemy coming, do not be so quick to pop out of stealth and start attacking them, there is a high chance there may be a stealther with them, make sure you call it out to your team in chat or on vent/mumble/teamspeak as soon as you see them.

-If an enemy stealther is lurking around your node and they haven't detected you, go in enhanced stealth and scout the area around them to see if you can find any other stealthers accompanying them. If you spot noone else but them, then and only then can you 1v1 them, but make sure you called this out to your team the moment you saw the stealther.

-If an enemy stealther went to your node and spotted you and started attacking you, fight him for a bit and see where the duel is going. If it looks like you're winning keep attacking him until he dies. If it looks like you're losing, pop resilence if necessary, and use force cloak sprint to get to safety. Use blackout once the enhanced stealth from your force cloak wears off. Call out as soon as you're attacked.

-If a single enemy comes to your node and uses an 8 second mezz on you and starts capping, don't break it unless it's a flash bang(I've had nodes capped from me with flash bangs when I'm standing in range that I'd be able to spam an attack on them.) Wait for the CC to end, while spamming an attack like project or force in balance on them. If you break the first CC, chances are you'll be hit with another 8 second CC and get capped on. Of course in Hypergates if it's an 8 second mezz you'll want to break the first CC.

-In a situation where you know if you don't break the first CC you will be capped, make sure that when you break the CC you immediately follow up with resilience so you can't be CCed again. Once you broke CC and used resilience, do a project or force in balance to stop the enemy cap. Once you've done that, use force cloak and force sprint to get out. Stop any attempted caps with mind maze. Use blackout when force cloak's effect wears off.


Node Delaying/Interference Tactics


-In Civil War, if you have a sentinel, ask them to give you transcendence. If you have transcendence your chance of stopping the enemy from getting their natural node in Civil War is very high.

-Take the right speeder off the bat in Civil War; it is slightly quicker than the left one.

-Make sure to use your force sprint on the way to the enemy node.

-Turn your mouse while running by holding the left click key to see if any enemies are coming directly at you from the side to try to stop you getting to the enemy cap in time.

-In the moment that an enemy gets near you on your way to the enemy node, pop your resilience in stealth as soon as he gets close, this way, if it's a Guardian or Sentinel using their AoE mezz to try to CC you in stealth, it won't have any effect on you and you can keep going to stop the enemy cap.

-If you see a Commando/Mercenary/Powertech/Vanguard coming at you to try to stop you from stopping the enemy cap, try to run around where you think they will stealth scan, rather than using resilience in stealth.

-Force in Balance is amazing for stopping that first enemy cap. Use it.

-If the enemy has already captured their natural node, make sure when you are approaching the enemy node that you use blackout so you can get the jump on any enemy stealthers that might be guarding that node.

-If it's only one enemy on their node, you might try 1v1ing them if you're confident in your skills, or you can try to CC
cap them. To do this, most times you would want to use mind maze first from stealth. Then right click your stealth off really fast, since doing that allows you to unstealth off the global cooldown. Right click the node really fast after that. A lot of times enemies will break your mind maze. When they do, you can either use instant force lift if you have it, or force cloak and mind maze them again, and right click the stealth buff to unstealth fast. This is simple to do in hypergates.

-If there is more than one enemy on their node and they are still trying to cap, use force in balance to stop the cap, then use resilience, force cloak, and force sprint to get out of there. Keep using mind maze on any enemy that tries to cap. When their resolve fills, you'll have no choice but to attack them to stop the caps. Once you are revealed, instead of straight out fighting the enemies, kite them around and use CCs to draw out the time for them to cap even longer

(from NamikazeNaruto’s post)

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.26.2013 , 03:07 PM | #2
PUG can basically be summed up as "If you want something done right, do it yourself". This is true even if you totally suck, whether it's a skill thing or a class thing (e.g. you're a Sniper attempting to run the ball). This is because having someone bad at doing something is still better than having nobody doing something. You can literally be solo defending a node in such a bad matchup that you've no chance of winning against any attacker, but the alternative is usually nobody defending the node, which is still a lot worse (unless it's Novare Coast).

GrimWolfMachia's Avatar


GrimWolfMachia
04.26.2013 , 03:22 PM | #3
A Good point... Goes back to knowing your rule... if you don't want to gaurd than dont play a tank... if you want to kill people then go dps... don't try to use a tank for dps doesn't work. knowing that before going into a game, as your class role should make an effort to do something that applies to your role, a lot of pugs like to run around aimlessly. If your dps you should be going after that marked healer are your primary objective. if your a tank you need to be gaurding your healer, running a ball, or gaurding the ball runner, throw group taunts like mass mindcontroll or sonic dart out onto that group of people attacking your ball carrier, or ccing a healer, or being in a good passing posistion

void star big no no when on defense if leaving the doors and fighting in the middle... or not keeping an eye on it... only takes one stealther to sneak past and plant that bomb when you are being distacted by a fight.

dufox's Avatar


dufox
04.26.2013 , 03:26 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
PUG can basically be summed up as "If you want something done right, do it yourself". This is true even if you totally suck, whether it's a skill thing or a class thing (e.g. you're a Sniper attempting to run the ball). This is because having someone bad at doing something is still better than having nobody doing something. You can literally be solo defending a node in such a bad matchup that you've no chance of winning against any attacker, but the alternative is usually nobody defending the node, which is still a lot worse (unless it's Novare Coast).
so true.
never assume your team knows what they are doing.
teach by example if you want people to learn.
i dont need a sig, im famous *****

Phrase's Avatar


Phrase
04.26.2013 , 03:27 PM | #5
If you're solo queuing for any other reason than to farm comms and complete the daily, you're expectations are too high. It's nice to win, but tbh it's just gravy/ frosting if you do*.






*Caveat: This doesn't mean solo queue pugs should neglect to play the objectives, they just shouldn't have high expectations for winning.

Sixgun
The Bastion

rlamela's Avatar


rlamela
04.26.2013 , 03:30 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Phrase View Post
If you're solo queuing for any other reason than to farm comms and complete the daily, you're expectations are too high. It's nice to win, but tbh it's just gravy/ frosting if you do*.






*Caveat: This doesn't mean solo queue pugs should neglect to play the objectives, they just shouldn't have high expectations for winning.
of course you should have high expectations of winning. Why do something competitive and not have high expectations of winning. Solo Queuing Regular warzones doesn't mean you should lose your expectations of winning.

Jenna'syyde

GrimWolfMachia's Avatar


GrimWolfMachia
04.26.2013 , 03:30 PM | #7
true but expectations aside, there are a lot of pug groups who do well, because they know what they should be doing and when,.. it flows, not as nicely a guild group who have voice but they can still put up a good fight. that's why i am encouraging a discussion of common mistakes and how to advoid them, because a lot of people might be new to pvp... even if it is level 55 prehaps they pve play through their levels. i am not saying pug groups should be great but they can do better with a little education.